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15:56:30 <DanC> agenda + 10Jul http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0090.html
15:59:47 <GuusS> GuusS has joined #webont
16:00:16 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
16:00:23 <Zakim> +??P0
16:00:34 <Zakim> -??P0
16:00:35 <Zakim> +??P0
16:00:35 <Zakim> +DanC
16:00:46 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:00:47 <GuusS> zakim, ??p0 is Guus
16:00:47 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:00:57 <Zakim> +HermanT
16:01:28 <Zakim> +Jeff_Heflin
16:01:43 <Zakim> +??P10
16:01:46 <Zakim> +NickG
16:02:00 <DanC> Zakim, ??P10 is MasahiroH
16:02:00 <Zakim> +MasahiroH; got it
16:02:31 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #webont
16:02:45 <DanC> agenda?
16:03:19 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:03:35 <DanC> Zakim, [IBM] is temporarily ChrisW
16:03:35 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:03:52 <Zakim> +Dave
16:04:17 <DanC> Zakim, Dave is IanH
16:04:17 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
16:04:39 <Zakim> +??P14
16:05:05 <DanC> Zakim, ??P14 is PatH
16:05:05 <Zakim> +PatH; got it
16:05:08 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, DanC, Sandro, HermanT, Jeff_Heflin, MasahiroH, NickG, ChrisW, IanH, PatH
16:05:38 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
16:05:48 <DanC> PROPOSED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2003/07/03-webont-irc as a true record
16:06:12 <DanC> so RESOLVED
16:06:19 <Zakim> +??P18
16:06:27 <DanC> Zakim, ??P18 is CharlesW
16:06:27 <Zakim> +CharlesW; got it
16:06:52 <DanC> next meeting: 24 July (not 17Jul)
16:06:59 <DanC> JimH to chair.
16:07:07 <DanC> EvanW to scribe.
16:07:49 <DanC> ACTION jjc: make sure test has owl:sameAs in Lite and no owl:sameIndividualAs (continues)
16:08:03 <DanC> ACTION jjc: Add owl:Thing = owl:Nothing test (continues)
16:08:16 <DanC> ACTION JJC: update test document  to reflect iff => if (continues)
16:08:30 <DanC> ACTION MikeS: to add new compoundkey issue (continues)
16:08:41 <DanC> ACTION MikeSmith: change closing text  to reflect iff => if (continues)
16:08:53 <DanC> ACTION PFPS: editorial change  to reflect iff => if (continues)
16:09:32 <DanC> reviewing... Guus update reference  to reflect iff => if
16:09:44 <DanC> DONE.
16:09:44 <Zakim> -PatH
16:10:19 <Zakim> +PatH
16:10:21 <DanC> -- 3. unspecified domain,range in App. C of OWL Language Reference 31 March 2003
16:10:40 <DanC> ACTION Mike Dean to respond.... transferred to Guus.
16:10:55 <DanC> -- 12. Re: privacy in OWL
16:11:18 <DanC> ACTION: Jim to propose response (continues, in progress)
16:11:31 <DanC> -- 21. daml:item
16:11:54 <DanC> reviewing ACTION Jim Hendler. Respond with pointer to Issue 2.5.
16:12:29 <DanC> Guus: only documentation of daml:item in the daml spec is in an RDFS comment... and it has a mistake.
16:13:58 <DanC> Guus: I gave an example [work-around?]... JimH seems interested in having that in reference.
16:14:23 <DanC> ACTION Jim Hendler: Respond to commentor noting new example in ref
16:14:47 <DanC> ACTION GuusS: add daml:item work-alike example to Ref
16:14:56 <DanC> ACTION JimH: Respond to commentor noting new example in ref
16:16:02 <DanC> DanC gives some history of daml:item... sorta below the radar...
16:16:11 <DanC> -- 22. RDFCore Comments on OWL Reference
16:16:29 <DanC> reviewing ACTION Frank van Harmelen to respond to one open element (rdfs:Class vs. owl:Class)
16:18:01 <DanC> withdrawn.
16:18:24 <DanC> ACTION PatH: draft rationale for rdfs:Class vs. owl:Class situation (less controversial than last time)
16:18:31 <DanC> -- 28. Non-global Keys
16:18:43 <DanC> ACTION Jim Hendler to propose response. DONE
16:21:11 <DanC> ACTION JimH: To tell issue raiser about compound ket. (continues; we can't find it)
16:21:37 <DanC> DONE: Jeremy review proposed reply.
16:21:43 <DanC> -- 38. QA Review of owl-semantics
16:22:10 <DanC> Karl seems satisfied http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webont-comments/2003Jul/0012.html
16:22:35 <DanC> ACTION JJC: edit test to point to roadmap (continues)
16:24:30 <DanC> ACTION Sandro: make sure reference roadmap gets updated
16:24:40 <DanC> ACTION JeffH: send pointer to latest draft (including pointer to roadmap)
16:25:42 <DanC> Guus: oddly, sandro's msg doesn't show up in the archive
16:26:46 <DanC> Karl: "OK. I agree with your answer, except for a detail."
16:27:15 <DanC> Sandro: how about the editorial comment about informative vs. normative in S&AS?
16:27:22 <DanC> IanH: hmm... good question
16:27:44 <DanC> ACTION IanH: follow up on normative/informative editorial comment from Karl
16:28:16 <DanC> -- (new): Keck: ObjectProperty and DatatypeProperty
16:29:32 <DanC> i.e. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webont-comments/2003Jul/0011.html
16:29:57 <DanC> Guus: his point that the names are bad is well-made
16:30:39 <JosD> JosD has joined #webont
16:31:20 <Zakim> +??P21
16:31:32 <DanC> Zakim, ??P21 is JosD
16:31:32 <Zakim> +JosD; got it
16:34:00 <DanC> ChrisW: yes, confusion with rdfs's sense of "object" is a good point; seems worth a note in Guide
16:34:11 <DanC> Sandro: how about a comment in the owl RDF schema?
16:34:17 <DanC> Guus: we don't have comments in the owl RDF schema
16:34:40 <DanC> ACTION ChrisW: propose response re ObjectProperty and DatatypeProperty, including note in Guide
16:35:11 <DanC> reviewing DanC: send notice of RDF Core change to subClassOf
16:35:47 <DanC> [[
16:35:48 <DanC> From: 	Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
16:35:48 <DanC> To: 	www-webont-wg@w3.org
16:35:48 <DanC> Cc: 	Brian McBride <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
16:35:48 <DanC> Subject: 	RDFCore changed rdfs:subClassOf from iff to if
16:35:48 <DanC> Date: 	10 Jul 2003 11:00:19 -0500
16:35:50 <DanC> ]]
16:38:13 <DanC> DanC: [history of rdfs:subClassOf if vs. iff...]
16:39:08 <DanC> Welty: did anybody see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0087.html ?
16:39:36 <ChrisW> note it requires a minCardinality
16:41:02 <DanC> IanH: how do you get the extensions lined up 'accidently'?
16:41:10 <DanC> DanC: [ example using oneOf ...]
16:41:20 <DanC> IanH: but oneOf isn't in RDFS...
16:41:55 <DanC> DanC/PatH: see the example horst gave with rdf:type etc.
16:43:03 <DanC> ACTION PatH: make sure S&AS is updated accordingly.
16:45:13 <DanC> === 3. Discussion of Schedule and next steps
16:45:49 <DanC> results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/30310/CRorPR/results (member-confidential)
16:46:11 <DanC> Guus: summary: 18 responses. for "move to PR", 3 preferred, 14 could live with it.
16:46:38 <DanC> Guus: I think some folks weren't clear that if you prefer something, you can also live with it
16:47:21 <DanC> ... for "short CR iff RDF not ready" 12 prefer, 9 can live with it. appears Jeremy and Jeff cannot live with it
16:47:41 <DanC> "Have a short CR irrespective of RDF Core" 2 prefer, 14 can live with
16:47:51 <DanC> "Have a long CR period" 0 prefer, 7 can live with
16:48:02 <Zakim> +[EDS]
16:48:17 <DanC> "Other - explained in comment field" 1, jjc, comment: gives exit criteria; suggests CR should be as long as it takes to get those
16:48:31 <ChrisW> zakim, [EDS] is temporarily MikeS
16:48:31 <Zakim> +MikeS; got it
16:55:27 <DanC> IanH: this "short CR" idea... how short is short? who decides?
16:55:40 <DanC> DanC: it's not really time that matters, but evidence of implementation experience...
16:55:54 <DanC> IanH: I think we have enough; I went to a recent conference with tons of people converting
16:56:24 <DanC> DanC: ... http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/rqim.html
16:58:10 <DanC> IanH: there's a column missing for Sean's work with vampire
16:58:25 <ChrisW> dan, do you want feedback on the table, or is it just an example of what it would look like
16:58:30 <DanC> IanH: it solved by far the biggest set of tests I've seen...
16:58:43 <DanC> yes, feedback on the table please. esp data to put in it ;-)
17:04:57 <DanC> IanH: you could add Racer as a column
17:05:10 <DanC> DanC: it would be nice if I had a report from the Racer folks about which tests they pass
17:06:43 <ChrisW> gotto go
17:06:46 <ChrisW> bye!
17:09:12 <DanC> Guus: the questionairre seems to indicate that a short CR is in order.
17:09:33 <DanC> DanC: so should we draft a request for CR?
17:09:45 <DanC> Guus: yes, seems like a good idea. perhaps for the 27July agenda
17:09:59 <DanC> 24July, rather
17:10:44 <DanC> Guus: some comments are awaiting ack... does that prevent CR?
17:11:08 <DanC> DanC: no... if we say "are you satisfied?" and they don't reply after 7 days, they must not have cared that much
17:11:40 <DanC> Guus: RDFCore reviewed WebOnt, we responded; do you expect that'll be accepted?
17:12:09 <DanC> PatH: I haven't seen anything that's likely to cause trouble, but I'm not sure I've seen it all
17:12:25 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
17:12:36 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (10%), Sandro (40%), ChrisW (34%), PatH (42%), CharlesW (14%), JosD (66%), DanC (5%)
17:12:42 <DanC> JosD: I'm not comfortable on the rdfs:Class/owl:Class situation... hmm...
17:12:50 <sandro> zakim, mute ChrisW temporarily
17:12:50 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
17:13:05 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be unmuted again
17:13:48 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
17:14:00 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (9%), ChrisW (36%), CharlesW (31%), JosD (17%)
17:14:06 <GuusS> zakim, who is talking?
17:14:16 <Zakim> GuusS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (41%), ChrisW (38%), PatH (9%), CharlesW (20%), JosD (14%), DanC (15%)
17:14:33 <DanC> ADJOURN. for 2 weeks.
17:14:45 <Zakim> -MikeS
17:14:48 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
17:14:50 <Zakim> -PatH
17:14:51 <Zakim> -CharlesW
17:14:52 <Zakim> -Jeff_Heflin
17:14:53 <Zakim> -NickG
17:14:54 <Zakim> -HermanT
17:14:55 <Zakim> -IanH
17:14:56 <Zakim> -MasahiroH
17:14:56 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:15:00 <Zakim> -Guus
17:15:13 <Zakim> -DanC
17:15:14 <Zakim> -JosD
17:18:05 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:18:06 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
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17:35:22 <DanC> RRSAgent, pointer?
17:35:22 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2003/07/10-webont-irc#T17-35-22
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