IRC log of webont on 2003-07-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

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agenda + 10Jul
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SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
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16:00:47 [GuusS]
zakim, ??p0 is Guus
16:00:47 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
16:00:57 [Zakim]
16:01:28 [Zakim]
16:01:43 [Zakim]
16:01:46 [Zakim]
16:02:00 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P10 is MasahiroH
16:02:00 [Zakim]
+MasahiroH; got it
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Zakim, [IBM] is temporarily ChrisW
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+ChrisW; got it
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Zakim, Dave is IanH
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+IanH; got it
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16:05:05 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P14 is PatH
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+PatH; got it
16:05:08 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, DanC, Sandro, HermanT, Jeff_Heflin, MasahiroH, NickG, ChrisW, IanH, PatH
16:05:38 [Zakim]
16:05:48 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to accept as a true record
16:06:12 [DanC]
16:06:19 [Zakim]
16:06:27 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P18 is CharlesW
16:06:27 [Zakim]
+CharlesW; got it
16:06:52 [DanC]
next meeting: 24 July (not 17Jul)
16:06:59 [DanC]
JimH to chair.
16:07:07 [DanC]
EvanW to scribe.
16:07:49 [DanC]
ACTION jjc: make sure test has owl:sameAs in Lite and no owl:sameIndividualAs (continues)
16:08:03 [DanC]
ACTION jjc: Add owl:Thing = owl:Nothing test (continues)
16:08:16 [DanC]
ACTION JJC: update test document to reflect iff => if (continues)
16:08:30 [DanC]
ACTION MikeS: to add new compoundkey issue (continues)
16:08:41 [DanC]
ACTION MikeSmith: change closing text to reflect iff => if (continues)
16:08:53 [DanC]
ACTION PFPS: editorial change to reflect iff => if (continues)
16:09:32 [DanC]
reviewing... Guus update reference to reflect iff => if
16:09:44 [DanC]
16:09:44 [Zakim]
16:10:19 [Zakim]
16:10:21 [DanC]
-- 3. unspecified domain,range in App. C of OWL Language Reference 31 March 2003
16:10:40 [DanC]
ACTION Mike Dean to respond.... transferred to Guus.
16:10:55 [DanC]
-- 12. Re: privacy in OWL
16:11:18 [DanC]
ACTION: Jim to propose response (continues, in progress)
16:11:31 [DanC]
-- 21. daml:item
16:11:54 [DanC]
reviewing ACTION Jim Hendler. Respond with pointer to Issue 2.5.
16:12:29 [DanC]
Guus: only documentation of daml:item in the daml spec is in an RDFS comment... and it has a mistake.
16:13:58 [DanC]
Guus: I gave an example [work-around?]... JimH seems interested in having that in reference.
16:14:23 [DanC]
ACTION Jim Hendler: Respond to commentor noting new example in ref
16:14:47 [DanC]
ACTION GuusS: add daml:item work-alike example to Ref
16:14:56 [DanC]
ACTION JimH: Respond to commentor noting new example in ref
16:16:02 [DanC]
DanC gives some history of daml:item... sorta below the radar...
16:16:11 [DanC]
-- 22. RDFCore Comments on OWL Reference
16:16:29 [DanC]
reviewing ACTION Frank van Harmelen to respond to one open element (rdfs:Class vs. owl:Class)
16:18:01 [DanC]
16:18:24 [DanC]
ACTION PatH: draft rationale for rdfs:Class vs. owl:Class situation (less controversial than last time)
16:18:31 [DanC]
-- 28. Non-global Keys
16:18:43 [DanC]
ACTION Jim Hendler to propose response. DONE
16:21:11 [DanC]
ACTION JimH: To tell issue raiser about compound ket. (continues; we can't find it)
16:21:37 [DanC]
DONE: Jeremy review proposed reply.
16:21:43 [DanC]
-- 38. QA Review of owl-semantics
16:22:10 [DanC]
Karl seems satisfied
16:22:35 [DanC]
ACTION JJC: edit test to point to roadmap (continues)
16:24:30 [DanC]
ACTION Sandro: make sure reference roadmap gets updated
16:24:40 [DanC]
ACTION JeffH: send pointer to latest draft (including pointer to roadmap)
16:25:42 [DanC]
Guus: oddly, sandro's msg doesn't show up in the archive
16:26:46 [DanC]
Karl: "OK. I agree with your answer, except for a detail."
16:27:15 [DanC]
Sandro: how about the editorial comment about informative vs. normative in S&AS?
16:27:22 [DanC]
IanH: hmm... good question
16:27:44 [DanC]
ACTION IanH: follow up on normative/informative editorial comment from Karl
16:28:16 [DanC]
-- (new): Keck: ObjectProperty and DatatypeProperty
16:29:32 [DanC]
16:29:57 [DanC]
Guus: his point that the names are bad is well-made
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16:31:32 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P21 is JosD
16:31:32 [Zakim]
+JosD; got it
16:34:00 [DanC]
ChrisW: yes, confusion with rdfs's sense of "object" is a good point; seems worth a note in Guide
16:34:11 [DanC]
Sandro: how about a comment in the owl RDF schema?
16:34:17 [DanC]
Guus: we don't have comments in the owl RDF schema
16:34:40 [DanC]
ACTION ChrisW: propose response re ObjectProperty and DatatypeProperty, including note in Guide
16:35:11 [DanC]
reviewing DanC: send notice of RDF Core change to subClassOf
16:35:47 [DanC]
16:35:48 [DanC]
From: Dan Connolly <>
16:35:48 [DanC]
16:35:48 [DanC]
Cc: Brian McBride <>
16:35:48 [DanC]
Subject: RDFCore changed rdfs:subClassOf from iff to if
16:35:48 [DanC]
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:00:19 -0500
16:35:50 [DanC]
16:38:13 [DanC]
DanC: [history of rdfs:subClassOf if vs. iff...]
16:39:08 [DanC]
Welty: did anybody see ?
16:39:36 [ChrisW]
note it requires a minCardinality
16:41:02 [DanC]
IanH: how do you get the extensions lined up 'accidently'?
16:41:10 [DanC]
DanC: [ example using oneOf ...]
16:41:20 [DanC]
IanH: but oneOf isn't in RDFS...
16:41:55 [DanC]
DanC/PatH: see the example horst gave with rdf:type etc.
16:43:03 [DanC]
ACTION PatH: make sure S&AS is updated accordingly.
16:45:13 [DanC]
=== 3. Discussion of Schedule and next steps
16:45:49 [DanC]
results: (member-confidential)
16:46:11 [DanC]
Guus: summary: 18 responses. for "move to PR", 3 preferred, 14 could live with it.
16:46:38 [DanC]
Guus: I think some folks weren't clear that if you prefer something, you can also live with it
16:47:21 [DanC]
... for "short CR iff RDF not ready" 12 prefer, 9 can live with it. appears Jeremy and Jeff cannot live with it
16:47:41 [DanC]
"Have a short CR irrespective of RDF Core" 2 prefer, 14 can live with
16:47:51 [DanC]
"Have a long CR period" 0 prefer, 7 can live with
16:48:02 [Zakim]
16:48:17 [DanC]
"Other - explained in comment field" 1, jjc, comment: gives exit criteria; suggests CR should be as long as it takes to get those
16:48:31 [ChrisW]
zakim, [EDS] is temporarily MikeS
16:48:31 [Zakim]
+MikeS; got it
16:55:27 [DanC]
IanH: this "short CR" idea... how short is short? who decides?
16:55:40 [DanC]
DanC: it's not really time that matters, but evidence of implementation experience...
16:55:54 [DanC]
IanH: I think we have enough; I went to a recent conference with tons of people converting
16:56:24 [DanC]
DanC: ...
16:58:10 [DanC]
IanH: there's a column missing for Sean's work with vampire
16:58:25 [ChrisW]
dan, do you want feedback on the table, or is it just an example of what it would look like
16:58:30 [DanC]
IanH: it solved by far the biggest set of tests I've seen...
16:58:43 [DanC]
yes, feedback on the table please. esp data to put in it ;-)
17:04:57 [DanC]
IanH: you could add Racer as a column
17:05:10 [DanC]
DanC: it would be nice if I had a report from the Racer folks about which tests they pass
17:06:43 [ChrisW]
gotto go
17:06:46 [ChrisW]
17:09:12 [DanC]
Guus: the questionairre seems to indicate that a short CR is in order.
17:09:33 [DanC]
DanC: so should we draft a request for CR?
17:09:45 [DanC]
Guus: yes, seems like a good idea. perhaps for the 27July agenda
17:09:59 [DanC]
24July, rather
17:10:44 [DanC]
Guus: some comments are awaiting ack... does that prevent CR?
17:11:08 [DanC]
DanC: no... if we say "are you satisfied?" and they don't reply after 7 days, they must not have cared that much
17:11:40 [DanC]
Guus: RDFCore reviewed WebOnt, we responded; do you expect that'll be accepted?
17:12:09 [DanC]
PatH: I haven't seen anything that's likely to cause trouble, but I'm not sure I've seen it all
17:12:25 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
17:12:36 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (10%), Sandro (40%), ChrisW (34%), PatH (42%), CharlesW (14%), JosD (66%), DanC (5%)
17:12:42 [DanC]
JosD: I'm not comfortable on the rdfs:Class/owl:Class situation... hmm...
17:12:50 [sandro]
zakim, mute ChrisW temporarily
17:12:50 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
17:13:05 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be unmuted again
17:13:48 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
17:14:00 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (9%), ChrisW (36%), CharlesW (31%), JosD (17%)
17:14:06 [GuusS]
zakim, who is talking?
17:14:16 [Zakim]
GuusS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (41%), ChrisW (38%), PatH (9%), CharlesW (20%), JosD (14%), DanC (15%)
17:14:33 [DanC]
ADJOURN. for 2 weeks.
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SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
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RRSAgent, pointer?
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