15:46:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webont
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15:46:58 <DanC> Zakim, this will be webo
15:46:58 <Zakim> ok, DanC; I see SW_WebOnt()12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
15:47:10 <sandro> sandro has joined #webont
15:48:15 <DanC> agenda + 26Jun http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0350.html
15:48:50 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: 26 Jun http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/ chair: JimH/DanC; scribe: ???
15:50:26 <baget> baget has joined #webont
15:52:15 <sandro> I think Jim is chairing.
15:53:04 <sandro> week, but might come late - I'm stuck at a DARPA meeting in the AM. 
15:53:04 <sandro> Can you convene the meeting and, if I'm not there on time, start the 
15:53:04 <sandro> action review?  I'm also probably going to have to cell phone in, so 
15:53:04 <sandro> probably won't have access
15:53:04 <sandro>   (in fact, if one of you is willing to consider chairing, I wouldn't 
15:53:06 <sandro> complain, but I will also understand if you prefer not to)
15:53:17 <sandro> oops.   not supposed to go to channel.
15:57:12 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
15:57:18 <Zakim> +??P3
15:57:32 <mdean> mdean has joined #webont
15:57:48 <Zakim> +DanC
15:59:03 <Zakim> +??P5
16:00:09 <DanC> partial regrets from Marwan
16:00:25 <Zakim> +Tim_Finin
16:00:34 <Zakim> +??P12
16:00:36 <Zakim> +??P10
16:00:54 <Zakim> +[EDS]
16:01:13 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
16:01:18 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:01:27 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:01:47 <Zakim> +??P18
16:02:31 <Zakim> -JeromeE
16:03:00 <Zakim> +??P12
16:03:08 <jjc> jjc has joined #webont
16:03:08 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #webont
16:04:59 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:05:04 <ChrisW> hi
16:05:17 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose MikeS
16:05:57 <ChrisW> zakim, [IBM] is ChrisW
16:05:57 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:06:23 <ChrisW> agenda at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0350.html
16:06:48 <ChrisW> Approved: 12 June minutes
16:07:03 <ChrisW> Approved: 19 June minutes
16:07:05 <Zakim> +Deb_Mcguinness
16:07:18 <Zakim> +??P21
16:08:27 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet again 3July, hendler to chair, carroll to scribe.
16:08:31 <Zakim> +??P22
16:08:43 <DeborahMc> DeborahMc has joined #webont
16:08:46 <ChrisW> action review
16:10:32 <ChrisW> ACTION: Jim Hendler.  Send response.
16:10:36 <ChrisW> continued
16:10:58 <ChrisW> CONTINUED: Jeremy Carroll.  Generate test case.
16:13:27 <DanC> Zakim, who's talking?
16:13:38 <Zakim> DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (38%), JimH (64%), DanC (60%)
16:14:46 <Zakim> +??P26
16:14:49 <Zakim> + +1.705.756.aaaa
16:16:24 <Zakim> +??P27
16:16:35 <Zakim> -HermanT
16:17:02 <JosD> JosD has joined #webont
16:17:31 <Zakim> +HermanT
16:18:19 <ChrisW> I'm muted - will speak up when I fall behind
16:20:08 <Zakim> -JimH
16:20:32 <ChrisW> Ian discusses paper by Group at U. Roma La Sapienza 
16:20:38 <Zakim> +??P21
16:24:37 <ChrisW> Agenda Item 3 - Sameas
16:24:59 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0345.html
16:26:26 <ChrisW> resolved by consensus to accept Guus' proposal
16:26:33 <ChrisW> ACTION all editors to update
16:26:33 <DanC> ack ChrisW
16:26:57 <ChrisW> abstain JeromeE
16:27:29 <ChrisW> Agenda Item 4 - Compound Keys
16:28:16 <ChrisW> proposal to open and postpone the issue
16:28:39 <guus> guus has joined #webont
16:29:14 <Zakim> +??P28
16:29:29 <ChrisW> Jeremy summarizes - OWL lacks the ability to express keys of more than one attribute
16:29:39 <ChrisW> technical work still in progress
16:30:09 <ChrisW> Ian - may be possible - not necessarily a design flaw in OWL
16:30:37 <sandro> "It is very common in database systems to have primary keys composed of multiple fields, and in OWL, using InverseFunctionalProperties it is possible to do something similar with one field, but ..."
16:32:16 <ChrisW> ACTION Jim write up an issue description 
16:32:26 <ChrisW> Sentiment of group in favor
16:32:41 <ChrisW> (of opening and postponing)
16:33:03 <ChrisW> Agenda Item 5.0 Dave Beckett's response
16:33:31 <ChrisW> Beckett not satisfied with response in
16:33:31 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webont-comments/2003Jun/0068.html
16:34:35 <ChrisW> possibly send "what Sean wrote" (on RDF to OWL)
16:36:38 <DanC> ack danc
16:36:38 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to recall 3rd option... add beckett to dissenters
16:36:57 <DanC> ack jimh
16:37:43 <ChrisW> jim - are our syntax checkers sufficient for this?
16:38:50 <ChrisW> jjc - tools do not conform to abstract syntax at this time
16:38:55 <ChrisW> did I get that right?
16:39:29 <ChrisW> mikes - why translate from RDF triple to OWL abstract syntax
16:39:37 <ChrisW> danc - not a requirement
16:40:10 <DanC> I tried to say this reverse transformation is pretty closely related to the entailment testing tast
16:40:11 <DanC> task
16:40:36 <ChrisW> seanb - to do the reasoning youhave to understand the translation
16:41:54 <ChrisW> danc - do we have implementors who have implemented the entire spec, as opposed to just satisfying the tests
16:44:03 <ChrisW> danc - reverse mapping not required - just getting the "Right answers"
16:45:33 <ChrisW> jeff - semantics document uses abstract syntax, but documents talk about concrete syntax, and people need to do that mapping in their head
16:46:01 <ChrisW> jimh - are people willing to evaluate Sean's document to make it (more) official
16:46:41 <ChrisW> action JeffH report back to the WG on whether SeanBs document contributes to the issue
16:47:19 <ChrisW> ACTION JeffH report back to the WG on whether SeanBs document contributes to the issue
16:47:48 <ChrisW> ACTION: JeffH report back to the WG on whether SeanBs document contributes to the issue
16:47:51 <Zakim> -MarwanS
16:48:04 <ChrisW> Agenda Item 6.0 Test LC Update
16:48:18 <ChrisW> jjc - semantic layering
16:48:43 <ChrisW> DL and Full consistency are not the same according to PFPS
16:49:19 <ChrisW> Tests that make that assumption maybe need to be rewritten
16:49:28 <Zakim> -JeffH
16:50:22 <Zakim> +Tim_Finin
16:51:37 <ChrisW> danc document is different from WG decision
16:52:34 <ChrisW> jos - we get an inconsistency
16:55:05 <jjc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0295
16:55:14 <jjc> annotation property example
16:55:46 <jjc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0257
16:55:58 <jjc> empty universe example
16:57:12 <ChrisW> jim - is this just for annotation properties?
16:57:31 <ChrisW> jjc - one is.  The empty universe has to do with finite universes
16:59:32 <ChrisW> jim - reopen issue
17:00:30 <ChrisW> jjc - some work on test document required to fix
17:02:31 <sandro> owl:Thing owl:oneOf rdf:nil    contradiction in owl full, but not in DL, because it can have the empty universe.
17:02:36 <sandro> (from jjc)
17:03:13 <ChrisW> owl:Thing owl:oneOf rdf:nil .
17:03:26 <ChrisW> is a contradiction in OWL Full but not in OWL DL
17:03:32 <sandro> pfps: it is in the syntax
17:04:07 <sandro> jjc:  or owl:Thing owl:EquivalentClass owl:Nothing
17:04:40 <sandro> jjc: and owl:Thing must have instances in owl full, since it has itself.
17:05:14 <sandro> ih: there are several nasty examples with finite universes
17:05:36 <sandro> pfps: the whole idea of owl full was to pump up the universe, so you dont need to worry about typing.
17:08:18 <ChrisW> jimh - just subtype OWL:Thing from RDF:Resource
17:08:31 <ChrisW> not clear that would do it.
17:10:31 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
17:10:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see someplace, DanC, JeromeEuz, MikeS, Evan_Wallace, Mike_Dean, Sandro (muted), JeremyC, ChrisW, Deb_Mcguinness, TimFinin, PFPS, CharlesW, JosD, HermanT, ??P21,
17:10:34 <Zakim> ... GuusS, Tim_Finin
17:10:35 <Zakim> someplace has SeanB, IanH
17:10:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see guus, JosD, DeborahMc, ChrisW, jjc, mdean, baget, sandro, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger
17:11:30 <ChrisW> jimh - if we could describe this in one paragraph (as a caveat) then OK to close
17:14:49 <ChrisW> jimh - need an owner for this issue.  Volunteers?
17:14:54 <ChrisW> ...silence...
17:16:41 <sandro> pfps on the road for the next two weeks
17:17:40 <sandro> pfps: I don't think I beleive the if-and-only-if statement
17:18:49 <sandro> ih: weaken it to "if" and we might be okay
17:19:17 <jjc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jun/0265
17:19:19 <sandro> ih: if it's entailed in DL it's entailed in Full, but not necessarily the other way around.
17:19:27 <jjc> peter's msg with the one-way entailment
17:21:34 <sandro> from Guide: every valid DL conclusion is a valid Full conclusion.         PFPS: that's correct.
17:23:04 <sandro> pfps: If it's owl full consistent, it's owl dl consistent.
17:25:10 <ChrisW> zakim, ??P21 is JimH
17:25:10 <Zakim> +JimH; got it
17:25:17 <ChrisW> zakim, who is here?
17:25:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see someplace, DanC, JeromeEuz, MikeS, Evan_Wallace, Mike_Dean, Sandro (muted), JeremyC, ChrisW, Deb_Mcguinness, TimFinin, PFPS, CharlesW, JosD, HermanT, JimH,
17:25:20 <Zakim> ... GuusS, Tim_Finin
17:25:21 <Zakim> someplace has SeanB, IanH
17:25:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see guus, JosD, DeborahMc, ChrisW, jjc, mdean, baget, sandro, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger
17:27:05 <ChrisW> ACTION: JJC summarize impact on test
17:28:14 <ChrisW> ACTION: IanH notify FrankVH
17:28:28 <ChrisW> ACTION: DanC to contact PatH and W3C colleagues
17:29:09 <sandro> Next meeting: July 3rd, Hender chair, Carroll scribe.
17:29:16 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
17:29:18 <Zakim> -MikeS
17:29:19 <Zakim> -PFPS
17:29:20 <Zakim> -CharlesW
17:29:21 <Zakim> -HermanT
17:29:21 <Zakim> -JeremyC
17:29:22 <ChrisW> adjourned
17:29:22 <Zakim> -Tim_Finin
17:29:23 <Zakim> -someplace
17:29:24 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
17:29:25 <Zakim> -JeromeEuz
17:29:27 <Zakim> -TimFinin
17:29:29 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:29:31 <Zakim> -DanC
17:29:33 <Zakim> -Deb_Mcguinness
17:29:36 <Zakim> -JimH
17:29:37 <Zakim> -JosD
17:29:39 <Zakim> -GuusS
17:29:42 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:29:43 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
17:29:48 <DanC> well, I neglected to get the action assigned, but yes, I expect Mike S to note the issue is reopened.
17:34:20 <ChrisW> ACTION: MikeS to update issues list with "semantic layering" reopened
17:43:55 <DeborahMc> DeborahMc has left #webont
18:05:07 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
18:05:07 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2003/06/26-webont-irc#T18-05-07
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