16:07:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #simile
16:08:03 <marbut> mickBass: I've sent a URL pointing at Endicott house, its in the rural part of Mass
16:08:04 <em> em has changed the topic to: simile jun 13 teleconfernece
16:08:09 <AndyS> Attending: EricM
16:08:10 <em> em has changed the topic to: simile jun 13 teleconference
16:08:46 <marbut> mickBass: The evening before the plenary people could stay, then the next day stay overnight, then the next day head back into town
16:09:18 <marbut> or to the airport depending on their travel plans. Because this is an MIT facility, it costs $250 a day. To do this
16:09:36 <marbut> one of the PIs need to offer up their account number for the billing, then do transfers after the fact to
16:09:51 <marbut> even out the cost. Also we need to confirm the number of people on both nights. They've agreed to hold
16:10:22 <marbut> the spaces for up to ten people on both nights. 
16:10:56 <marbut> MacKenzie: I think I can use my budget for this.
16:11:06 <marbut> mickBass: Can you send me an email with the relevant account number?
16:11:39 <marbut> mickBass: I would like coverage from different angles, all the PIs need to be there, also we need accountable managers
16:11:59 <marbut> from genesis, semantic web and simile to be there. Also we need the key technical interface people to semantic
16:12:13 <marbut> web and genesis to be there. And I'd like the HP core contributors to be there.
16:12:19 <marbut> That adds up to 11 people
16:13:13 <marbut> So the tension here is you do want to be inclusive, but you don't want the group to be manageable. 
16:13:33 <marbut> Mackenzie: The only person I might bring is Richard, but I don't think it is that necessary.
16:13:48 <marbut> Eric: If we had our hires it would make sense, but we won't
16:14:12 <marbut> mickBass: But we could say we plan on including any hires, but thats probably not something we need to deal with
16:14:29 <marbut> mickBass: Who wouldn't want to stay on Endicott House?
16:14:51 <marbut> kevins2: I'd prefer to go the night before.
16:15:08 <marbut> mickBass: I'll hold 9 rooms for the first night, 10 rooms for the second.
16:16:55 <AndyS> Plenary proposed agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-dspace/2003Jun/0046.html
16:17:21 <AndyS> This call: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-dspace/2003Jun/0045.html
16:17:22 <marbut> mickBass: we want to come out with tasks, priorities, milestones
16:17:53 <marbut> During the first day, we have a session to get consensus on the high level plan, then two other activities one to focus on the use cases
16:18:12 <marbut> and diving into a higher end to end decomposition of use cases
16:19:13 <marbut> also we need to look at the prototype demonstrators, then perhaps based on the use case propose some new ones
16:19:30 <marbut> until we have some confidence that the activities on the table are sufficient for the use cases.
16:20:16 <marbut> This would set the stage for the more detailed work on day 2
16:20:30 <marbut> I've put this out now so we can start thinking about prework.
16:20:48 <marbut> AndyS: I think we need to narrow the use cases as soon as possible. We need to have fewer use cases.
16:21:06 <marbut> mickBass: On the call next week, we should review some proposals to do that
16:22:04 <marbut> If anyone has suggestions about facilitation, please contact me
16:22:15 <marbut> Is there anything else on the plenary?
16:22:29 <marbut> MacKenzie: Have you checked David can come on both days?
16:22:31 <marbut> mickBass: yes
16:23:10 <marbut> One of the things we have spent some time on this week is how to finish the documents. So one thing is the research drivers document is too big.
16:23:58 <marbut> So I'd like to propose some work to split the document up, and ask for some help in an editorial capacity to try to get it to a more polished state
16:24:21 <marbut> so it reflects the thinking of the team.
16:25:46 <marbut> Mark: we split it into introduction / context, then separate document for motivating problems, then a use case document
16:29:44 <marbut> Mackenzie: Some of the UC are collapsable. The first are collapsable. We've also done some priortiziation.
16:29:57 <marbut> The problem is the PIs will proritize them in different ways. 
16:30:13 <marbut> Eric: But that might be an interesting experiment.
16:31:21 <marbut> mickBass: On the techniques document, I have a suggestion
16:32:08 <marbut> my understanding of the current state is its got a strong organization by category, but its organized by issues so there isn't any text
16:32:13 <marbut> bringing these things together
16:32:30 <marbut> Also where we've taken discussions, they may need some additional rewriting / editing.
16:33:04 <marbut> So it will be useful for one individual from the SIMILE core team, the SW team and Genesis team to take a pass through it, so suggestions can be merged back in.
16:34:52 <marbut> AndyS: I need there needs to be an architect who has a technical sense of where things are going.
16:35:51 <marbut> mickBass: I'd like to organize this offline, to check this represents the view points of the three teams
16:36:39 <marbut> mickBass: We also need to spend some time on architectural levels issues pertaining to use cases.
16:37:37 <marbut> mickBass: so we need to propose some different roads that SIMILE may walk down
16:38:10 <marbut> AndyS: That outputs a document, which is important, but I also think we need a sense of this in someones mind as well
16:39:25 <marbut> mickBass: I do think from the plenary, one of the tasks is generation of techniques e.g. subproblems and different hammers that can be deployed for the subproblems
16:39:55 <marbut> We need a document that says these are some different ways of solving the use case deploying some of the hammers
16:40:45 <marbut> I think the owner of that document is going to be people from the HP core team and the PIs
16:41:10 <marbut> Rob, can I ask you to coordinate an initial offline call?
16:42:09 <marbut> Mark: Its all of chapter 3.
16:43:13 <marbut> kevins2: We also need to fill in 4.9 in the use case document
16:44:47 <marbut> mickBass: I also want to walk through the SIMILE action list. One open action is to finalize the research staff descriptions
16:44:51 <AndyS> http://web.mit.edu/simile/www/resources/projectIssues/pi.html
16:45:03 <marbut> I've spoken to MacKenzie and Eric and think this is about to happen?
16:45:20 <marbut> Eric: I need to talk to David about this, but yes we expect this shortly.
16:45:42 <marbut> mickBass: I want to work this aggressively next week, as I'll be in Cambridge next week.
16:47:57 <marbut> I think communication is better, but I want some feedback from the PIs.
16:48:30 <marbut> MacKenzie: We need to check this at the plenary. The plenary should move us on, we just need to make sure it contains regular meetings.
16:49:05 <marbut> Eric: I think this is going well, IRC is helpful, phone calls are helpful, we are making things happen about as much as I expect.
16:49:13 <marbut> AndyS: Fine
16:49:25 <marbut> Mark: Everything is fine, the plenary should help a lot.
16:49:42 <marbut> kevins2: Things are working okay, wasn't there a plan to get a WIKI up?
16:50:12 <marbut> mickBass: It was on the list. One process is getting a CVS in place. We might consider a WIKI, especially as a replacement for the 
16:50:17 <marbut> SIMILE home page.
16:50:31 <marbut> Let me take that offline.
16:50:56 <marbut> AndyS: There's a danger of having too many meanings of communication
16:51:41 <marbut> kevins2: I think that us just being on one mailing list is better. There are documents in different places, but really
16:51:48 <marbut> I would like to change the SIMILE web page.
16:52:06 <marbut> mickBass: I want to continue to move forward on the list, so I think I can come back with a sensible proposal.
16:52:50 <marbut> Do we have logins?
16:53:20 <marbut> Mark: I think we asked for it, but I haven't heard anything back.
16:54:11 <marbut> mickBass: Action to follow that up with Mick.
16:54:43 <marbut> We have a web publishing mechanism. We still have open a document that describes how to use the CVS repository, and how to publish it.
16:55:02 <marbut> Rob: A lot of thats done, I just need to put it together and put it in the CVS / on the website.
16:55:22 <marbut> mickBass: Stock presentation. I've had a stab at that, after the plenary we may want to do that again.
16:56:26 <marbut> I'd like to close on that, as we are out of time. Any AOB?
16:56:37 <marbut> MacKenzie: When are we going to talk about DOI? 
16:56:46 <marbut> mickBass: We can do it on the agenda next week?
16:57:08 <marbut> Eric: I'd like to be in on that discussion also.
16:57:15 <marbut> Does this get automatically archived?
16:57:29 <Rob> My client logs it, I can send you a copy
16:57:35 <marbut> Thanks Rob.
16:57:58 <Rob> I may have missed the first few comments though.
16:58:11 <marbut> Fancy a chat - how do you do chat thing?
16:58:42 <AndyS> Log should be http://www.w3.org/2003/06/13-simile-irc
16:58:48 <AndyS> but its 403
17:00:45 <em> irc log should now be accessible
17:01:09 <AndyS> em - thx
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