IRC log of webont on 2003-03-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:52:32 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webont
16:52:36 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #webont
16:52:40 [DanC]
Zakim, this will be WEBO
16:52:40 [Zakim]
ok, DanC; I see SW_WebOnt()12:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
16:57:34 [jhendler]
jhendler has joined #webont
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SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
16:57:45 [Zakim]
+[UMD]
16:57:50 [jhendler]
zakim, [umd] is JimH
16:57:50 [Zakim]
+JimH; got it
16:58:18 [Zakim]
+NickG
16:58:21 [Zakim]
+Marwan_Sabbouh
16:59:41 [jjc]
jjc has joined #webont
17:00:08 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
17:00:20 [Zakim]
+??P17
17:00:34 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p17 is guus
17:00:34 [Zakim]
+guus; got it
17:00:41 [Zakim]
+??P27
17:00:51 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p27 is jeremy
17:00:51 [Zakim]
+jeremy; got it
17:00:55 [Zakim]
+DanC
17:01:52 [Zakim]
+??P29
17:01:59 [DanC]
agenda + WebOnt 27Mar http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0207.html
17:02:01 [Zakim]
+M_Smith
17:02:07 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p29 is ian
17:02:07 [Zakim]
+ian; got it
17:02:27 [mdean]
mdean has joined #webont
17:02:28 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
17:02:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see JimH, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, Mike_Dean, guus, jeremy, DanC, ian, M_Smith
17:02:30 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mdean, jjc, jhendler, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmg, guus, DanC, logger
17:02:39 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: WebOnt (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/) 27 Mar. chair: JimH. scribe: Gibbins
17:02:40 [pfps]
pfps has joined #webont
17:02:41 [Zakim]
+??P39
17:02:50 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p39 is herman
17:02:50 [Zakim]
+herman; got it
17:03:18 [Zakim]
+??P41
17:03:21 [baget]
baget has joined #webont
17:03:31 [pfps]
zakim, ??p41 is pfps
17:03:31 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
17:03:41 [Zakim]
+??P42
17:03:55 [Zakim]
+JeromeE
17:04:03 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p42 is jos
17:04:03 [Zakim]
+jos; got it
17:04:09 [DanC]
I'm gonna call roll by http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=30310&order=org
17:04:15 [hth]
hth has joined #webont
17:04:23 [Zakim]
+??P45
17:04:32 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p45 is ziv
17:04:32 [Zakim]
+ziv; got it
17:04:41 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
17:04:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see JimH, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, Mike_Dean, guus, jeremy, DanC, ian, M_Smith, herman, pfps, jos, JeromeE, ziv
17:04:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see hth, baget, pfps, mdean, jjc, jhendler, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmg, guus, DanC, logger
17:05:01 [JosD___]
JosD___ has joined #webont
17:05:07 [Zakim]
+??P46
17:05:18 [Zakim]
+??P49
17:05:40 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p46 philips-res
17:05:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??p46 philips-res', jhendler
17:05:47 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p49 is hori
17:05:47 [Zakim]
+hori; got it
17:05:52 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
17:05:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see JimH, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, Mike_Dean, guus, jeremy, DanC, ian, M_Smith, herman, pfps, jos, JeromeE, ziv, ??P46, hori
17:05:54 [Zakim]
On IRC I see JosD___, hth, baget, pfps, mdean, jjc, jhendler, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmg, guus, DanC, logger
17:06:18 [JosD]
JosD has joined #webont
17:07:04 [Zakim]
+LynnT
17:11:26 [nmg]
Proposal to accept as a true record of the March 20, 2003 telcon:
17:11:26 [nmg]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0132.html
17:11:58 [DanC]
ammendment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0154.html
17:11:59 [nmg]
DanC: amendment from March 23
17:12:01 [nmg]
url?
17:12:30 [nmg]
ACCEPTED as amended
17:12:52 [nmg]
1.4 Telecon schedule
17:12:59 [nmg]
- scribe for April 3: jeremy
17:13:05 [nmg]
1.3 Agenda amendments
17:13:18 [nmg]
jjc: extend item 4 ;)
17:13:54 [seanb]
seanb has joined #webont
17:14:01 [nmg]
DanC: handling LCC, outstanding dissent?
17:14:15 [nmg]
jimh: discuss in 3.4
17:14:25 [nmg]
1.5 General Action Review
17:14:33 [nmg]
ACTION: DanC request review by internationalisation board of decision on
17:14:33 [nmg]
datatypes.
17:14:34 [nmg]
CONTINUED
17:14:59 [nmg]
ACTION: chairs to include discussion of presentation syntax in next telecon. - CONTINUED
17:15:07 [nmg]
2.0 Reopening of Issue 5.26 (10 minutes)
17:15:24 [Zakim]
+??P52
17:15:44 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p52 is Sean
17:15:44 [Zakim]
+Sean; got it
17:15:46 [nmg]
jjc: B1/B2 solution generally preferred, but dropped
17:15:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.883.aaaa
17:17:20 [jhendler]
zakim, aaa is obrst
17:17:20 [Zakim]
sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
17:17:30 [DanC]
zakim, aaaa is obrst
17:17:31 [Zakim]
+obrst; got it
17:18:07 [nmg]
jjc's objection summarised in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0192.html
17:18:58 [nmg]
pfps: nothing new to add
17:19:01 [Massimo]
Massimo has joined #webont
17:21:09 [nmg]
seanb: testcases for structure-sharing would be useful
17:21:35 [nmg]
jimh: two choices 1. approve B1/B2, wait for proof later. disproof would mean design change
17:22:20 [nmg]
jimh: choice 2. incorrect implementations
17:22:42 [Zakim]
+Massimo
17:24:35 [nmg]
STRAW POLL: adopting structreu sharing seems to cause a risk that a proof be hard to find, not adopting structure sharing seems to have performance risks
17:24:56 [nmg]
pfps: tricky to fix document at later date (if disproof)
17:25:09 [DanC]
poll yeilded several for adopting structure sharing, one against
17:25:37 [DanC]
s/performance risks/conformance risks/
17:25:49 [nmg]
sorry, bad line
17:25:56 [guus]
q+
17:26:33 [DanC]
ack danc
17:26:33 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to ask if this aspect of 5.26 is represented in the test spec yet
17:27:47 [nmg]
guus: this is design change of language - is it really something we can push in at a leter point?
17:29:21 [guus]
q-
17:30:26 [nmg]
jimh: not hard to fix things (addition/removal of B1/B2) during LC period
17:32:35 [nmg]
jimh: pfps, could you get us a proof by end of LC?
17:32:48 [nmg]
pfps: yes, can spend the time
17:33:16 [nmg]
jjc: better not to go in before LC (and then add during LC)
17:35:56 [nmg]
ACTION: pfps to work on proof
17:36:34 [nmg]
RESOLVED to close the issue 5.26, accepting all the points from the original docuemtn except B1,B1
17:36:40 [nmg]
b1,b"
17:36:44 [nmg]
B2 even
17:36:57 [nmg]
jjc objects
17:37:11 [nmg]
danc, obrst, deroo abstain
17:37:28 [nmg]
3.0 (60 min) LAST CALL DECISION
17:37:34 [DanC]
jjc, comments on this from HP are much more in order with you objecting
17:37:35 [nmg]
3.1 Review of Document Related Actions:
17:37:41 [DanC]
(comments during last call)
17:38:39 [nmg]
CTIONS: pfps, jos, smith, guus to update documents to reflect decision on datatypes - DONE
17:38:51 [nmg]
ACTION: JimH to write MikeS to insert in guide some words about security and privacy issues - DONE
17:39:07 [nmg]
ACTION: Chairs to contact JeffH to add ref section to req doc - DONE
17:39:50 [nmg]
ACTION: JeffH to add ref section to req doc
17:40:08 [nmg]
ACTION: DanC - will investigate question of adding to allDifferent list. No reply by next Tuesday (25/3) means do what he likes - DONEthat it is up to editor to
17:40:16 [nmg]
ACTION: JimH review of reference doc - DONE
17:40:33 [nmg]
ACTION: pfps, Jos to add broken RDF datatype test to test suite - DONE
17:40:49 [nmg]
ACTION: JimH to report to coordination group on model theory issue - DONE, later report
17:40:58 [nmg]
ACTION: GuusS to update ref to reflect deprecated class being subclass of RDFS class and not OWL class - DONE
17:41:10 [nmg]
ACTION: pfps to review (at least) section 8 of Ref doc. - DONE
17:41:15 [nmg]
3.2 Review of Document Status
17:41:55 [DanC]
docs I found: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0215.html
17:42:03 [DanC]
Web Ontology Language (OWL) Use Cases and Requirements
17:42:03 [DanC]
http://www.cse.lehigh.edu/~heflin/webont/reqdoc/index.html
17:42:03 [DanC]
Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:28:51 GMT
17:42:03 [DanC]
md5sum 88aa805134ea739a95ae62a72c89bd50
17:42:05 [nmg]
3.2.1 Requirements - ready for LC (references to be added later)
17:43:04 [nmg]
jimh,danc: changes from heflin agreed with danc are acceptable
17:43:17 [DanC]
OWL Web Ontology Language Overview
17:43:17 [DanC]
http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm/webont/OWLOverview.htm
17:43:17 [DanC]
Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:04:49 GMT
17:43:17 [DanC]
md5sum a2040620555c3e3e836a85447feab61e
17:43:24 [nmg]
3.2.2 Overview - ready for LC (any post- LC editing changes planned?)
17:43:42 [nmg]
3.2.3 Guide - ready for LC (any post- LC editing changes planned?)
17:43:50 [DanC]
OWL Web Ontology Language Guide
17:43:50 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/guide-src/Guide.html
17:43:50 [DanC]
Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:31:51 GMT
17:43:50 [DanC]
md5sum 0534c788afb352b2b78123e4dcadd1b8
17:44:17 [DanC]
NOTE: wine.owl and food.owl also
17:44:43 [nmg]
3.2.4 References - reviewed and ready for LC (any post- LC editing changes planned?)
17:44:44 [DanC]
http://www.daml.org/2002/06/webont/owl-ref-proposed OWL Web Ontology Language
17:44:44 [DanC]
Reference
17:44:44 [DanC]
Editor's Draft document - no W3C status at this time
17:44:44 [DanC]
This version:
17:44:44 [DanC]
March 27, 2003, 12.05 EST
17:45:01 [DanC]
Thu, 27 Mar 2003 17:08:36 GMT
17:46:10 [nmg]
jimh: WG happy to let guus, mike, danc resolve niggles?
17:46:20 [nmg]
guus: all comments incorporated - should be okay
17:46:40 [jjc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0229.html
17:46:40 [jjc]
My msg concerning reference 7.1
17:46:41 [nmg]
mike: okay with merge of changes
17:46:54 [nmg]
thanks, jjc
17:47:16 [DanC]
only MikeD and DanC in critical path for REF
17:47:16 [nmg]
3.2.5 Test - ready for LC (report on post LC changes planned)
17:47:22 [nmg]
3.2.6 S&AS - ready for LC? (dependent on 2.0 outcome, plus changes planned)
17:47:31 [nmg]
pfps: current version is 'as good as it gets'
17:47:38 [Raphael]
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17:47:43 [DanC]
http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/semantics/semantics-all.html Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:14:11 GMT
17:48:06 [Raphael]
Raphael has just joined via IRC. Will vote via Sean's telephone
17:48:20 [nmg]
noted
17:49:30 [nmg]
jjc: OntologyProperty issue with AS&S
17:50:42 [nmg]
jjc: could be addressed during LC
17:50:55 [DanC]
the WG hasn't made any decision on this. jjc's editorial suggestion hasn't been adopted by the editor
17:54:53 [DanC]
[... discussion of the dependency on the RDF semantics document ...]
18:00:01 [nmg]
jimh: S*AS ready for LC, adanc and pfps to put words in to reflect relationship to RDF LC semantics docs
18:00:24 [DanC]
... words *not* exclusive to datatypes.
18:00:46 [nmg]
thanks
18:01:42 [nmg]
3.2.5 Test
18:02:29 [nmg]
jjc: still some work to do re: datatypes (jos's action from last week)
18:03:59 [nmg]
jjc: danc's outstanding request for multi-doc tests in todo section of document - in progress
18:05:02 [Zakim]
-ian
18:05:24 [nmg]
DanC: publish text only, link to tests?
18:05:34 [nmg]
JosD: not really acceptable, happy with doc as it stands
18:07:30 [jjc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2003Mar/att-0083/M
18:08:55 [jjc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2003Mar/att-0083/L#FunctionalProperty-004
18:10:22 [nmg]
jjc: publish test as WD at same time as LC for other docs, publish test as LC later
18:11:59 [seanb]
http://www.w3.org/2002/03owlt/allValuesFrom/conclusions001.rdf
18:12:13 [seanb]
claimed as Lite, but the property is not typed.....
18:12:34 [jjc]
thanks sean
18:12:51 [jhendler]
Proposed: to move ALL of our documents (except Test for now) to LC
18:13:00 [DanC]
Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:11:54 GMT http://www.daml.org/2002/06/webont/owl-ref-proposed
18:13:13 [DanC]
^MikeD confirms
18:14:04 [nmg]
pfps abstains
18:14:20 [jhendler]
Proxies in favor: Borden, Dale, Wallace, Heflin, McGuinness
18:14:59 [nmg]
RESOLVED by consensus to move ALL of our documents (except Test for now) to LC
18:15:38 [nmg]
3.4 (dependent on 3.3) dates suggested by Coordination Group
18:15:49 [Raphael]
Raphael has left #webont
18:16:01 [nmg]
jimh: five weeks (until either 5th or 9th - to confirm)
18:17:06 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html
18:18:04 [nmg]
$Revision: 1.51 $ of $Date: 2003/03/27 16:38:59 $
18:19:20 [guus]
Jim, just checked the SWCG record. It is May 9 as proposed end of LC
18:19:27 [nmg]
DanC: 5.6, 5.17 closed over abstention
18:19:40 [nmg]
DanC: no
18:19:47 [nmg]
DanC: as is 5.26
18:20:05 [nmg]
DanC: no objector listed for 5.17, treat as abstention
18:20:17 [nmg]
correction: 5.6, 5.17 closed over objection
18:22:28 [nmg]
[handling of LC comments]
18:22:50 [nmg]
pfps: RDF Core handling not useful (splitting messages into separate issues)
18:23:21 [nmg]
DanC: after LC, until you hear from the chairs, do not respond on behalf of the WG
18:23:45 [nmg]
ACTION: chairs to send email to WG discusssing handling of LC comments
18:23:46 [DanC]
feel free to respond *explicitly not on behalf of the WG*
18:24:20 [nmg]
[returning to 3.2.5]
18:25:17 [nmg]
DanC: propose to publish whatever jjc gives me (by a date in consultation with jjc)
18:27:55 [nmg]
[...discussion of delay in LC resease of test after other LC releases...]
18:31:12 [nmg]
jjc: we should release a WD now with a note saying that we ask for implementor feedback
18:31:19 [Zakim]
-obrst
18:32:23 [guus]
ls
18:34:52 [nmg]
5) AOB (0-5 min)
18:34:54 [Zakim]
-??P46
18:35:04 [nmg]
chairs and W3c team rep thank participants for their efforts ;)
18:36:09 [Zakim]
-M_Smith
18:36:10 [Zakim]
-DanC
18:36:11 [Zakim]
-LynnT
18:36:12 [Zakim]
-ziv
18:36:13 [Zakim]
-herman
18:36:13 [Zakim]
-pfps
18:36:14 [Zakim]
-jeremy
18:36:15 [Zakim]
-jos
18:36:16 [Zakim]
-NickG
18:36:18 [Zakim]
-Massimo
18:36:20 [Zakim]
-Sean
18:36:22 [Zakim]
-hori
18:36:24 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
18:36:26 [Zakim]
-Marwan_Sabbouh
18:37:05 [seanb]
seanb has left #webont
18:39:55 [Zakim]
-JeromeE
18:41:19 [Zakim]
-guus
18:41:20 [Zakim]
-JimH
18:41:21 [Zakim]
SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
18:44:24 [DanC]
Hi Massimo... I was thinking about asking you to help with these publications, but I didn't get around to it.
18:44:34 [DanC]
Are you likely to be available tomorrow and monday to pitch in?
18:45:38 [jhendler]
DanC - Guus and I will talk on Monday after CG to work out details of handling LC comments, wouldwelcome your inputs
18:46:06 [DanC]
sounds good... better: ask to talk about it during CG?
18:46:30 [DanC]
in either case, if you can send some thoughs to semweb-cg before monday's telcon, I expect it'll be time well spent
20:25:05 [jhendler]
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Zakim has left #webont