IRC log of webont on 2003-03-27
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:52:32 [RRSAgent]
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- 16:52:36 [Zakim]
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- 16:52:40 [DanC]
- Zakim, this will be WEBO
- 16:52:40 [Zakim]
- ok, DanC; I see SW_WebOnt()12:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
- 16:57:34 [jhendler]
- jhendler has joined #webont
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- SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
- 16:57:45 [Zakim]
- +[UMD]
- 16:57:50 [jhendler]
- zakim, [umd] is JimH
- 16:57:50 [Zakim]
- +JimH; got it
- 16:58:18 [Zakim]
- +NickG
- 16:58:21 [Zakim]
- +Marwan_Sabbouh
- 16:59:41 [jjc]
- jjc has joined #webont
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- +Mike_Dean
- 17:00:20 [Zakim]
- +??P17
- 17:00:34 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p17 is guus
- 17:00:34 [Zakim]
- +guus; got it
- 17:00:41 [Zakim]
- +??P27
- 17:00:51 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p27 is jeremy
- 17:00:51 [Zakim]
- +jeremy; got it
- 17:00:55 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 17:01:52 [Zakim]
- +??P29
- 17:01:59 [DanC]
- agenda + WebOnt 27Mar http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0207.html
- 17:02:01 [Zakim]
- +M_Smith
- 17:02:07 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p29 is ian
- 17:02:07 [Zakim]
- +ian; got it
- 17:02:27 [mdean]
- mdean has joined #webont
- 17:02:28 [jhendler]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:02:28 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see JimH, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, Mike_Dean, guus, jeremy, DanC, ian, M_Smith
- 17:02:30 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see mdean, jjc, jhendler, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmg, guus, DanC, logger
- 17:02:39 [DanC]
- DanC has changed the topic to: WebOnt (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/) 27 Mar. chair: JimH. scribe: Gibbins
- 17:02:40 [pfps]
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- +??P39
- 17:02:50 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p39 is herman
- 17:02:50 [Zakim]
- +herman; got it
- 17:03:18 [Zakim]
- +??P41
- 17:03:21 [baget]
- baget has joined #webont
- 17:03:31 [pfps]
- zakim, ??p41 is pfps
- 17:03:31 [Zakim]
- +pfps; got it
- 17:03:41 [Zakim]
- +??P42
- 17:03:55 [Zakim]
- +JeromeE
- 17:04:03 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p42 is jos
- 17:04:03 [Zakim]
- +jos; got it
- 17:04:09 [DanC]
- I'm gonna call roll by http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=30310&order=org
- 17:04:15 [hth]
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- 17:04:23 [Zakim]
- +??P45
- 17:04:32 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p45 is ziv
- 17:04:32 [Zakim]
- +ziv; got it
- 17:04:41 [jhendler]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:04:41 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see JimH, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, Mike_Dean, guus, jeremy, DanC, ian, M_Smith, herman, pfps, jos, JeromeE, ziv
- 17:04:43 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see hth, baget, pfps, mdean, jjc, jhendler, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmg, guus, DanC, logger
- 17:05:01 [JosD___]
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- +??P46
- 17:05:18 [Zakim]
- +??P49
- 17:05:40 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p46 philips-res
- 17:05:40 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??p46 philips-res', jhendler
- 17:05:47 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p49 is hori
- 17:05:47 [Zakim]
- +hori; got it
- 17:05:52 [jhendler]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:05:52 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see JimH, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, Mike_Dean, guus, jeremy, DanC, ian, M_Smith, herman, pfps, jos, JeromeE, ziv, ??P46, hori
- 17:05:54 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see JosD___, hth, baget, pfps, mdean, jjc, jhendler, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmg, guus, DanC, logger
- 17:06:18 [JosD]
- JosD has joined #webont
- 17:07:04 [Zakim]
- +LynnT
- 17:11:26 [nmg]
- Proposal to accept as a true record of the March 20, 2003 telcon:
- 17:11:26 [nmg]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0132.html
- 17:11:58 [DanC]
- ammendment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0154.html
- 17:11:59 [nmg]
- DanC: amendment from March 23
- 17:12:01 [nmg]
- url?
- 17:12:30 [nmg]
- ACCEPTED as amended
- 17:12:52 [nmg]
- 1.4 Telecon schedule
- 17:12:59 [nmg]
- - scribe for April 3: jeremy
- 17:13:05 [nmg]
- 1.3 Agenda amendments
- 17:13:18 [nmg]
- jjc: extend item 4 ;)
- 17:13:54 [seanb]
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- DanC: handling LCC, outstanding dissent?
- 17:14:15 [nmg]
- jimh: discuss in 3.4
- 17:14:25 [nmg]
- 1.5 General Action Review
- 17:14:33 [nmg]
- ACTION: DanC request review by internationalisation board of decision on
- 17:14:33 [nmg]
- datatypes.
- 17:14:34 [nmg]
- CONTINUED
- 17:14:59 [nmg]
- ACTION: chairs to include discussion of presentation syntax in next telecon. - CONTINUED
- 17:15:07 [nmg]
- 2.0 Reopening of Issue 5.26 (10 minutes)
- 17:15:24 [Zakim]
- +??P52
- 17:15:44 [jhendler]
- zakim, ??p52 is Sean
- 17:15:44 [Zakim]
- +Sean; got it
- 17:15:46 [nmg]
- jjc: B1/B2 solution generally preferred, but dropped
- 17:15:57 [Zakim]
- + +1.703.883.aaaa
- 17:17:20 [jhendler]
- zakim, aaa is obrst
- 17:17:20 [Zakim]
- sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
- 17:17:30 [DanC]
- zakim, aaaa is obrst
- 17:17:31 [Zakim]
- +obrst; got it
- 17:18:07 [nmg]
- jjc's objection summarised in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0192.html
- 17:18:58 [nmg]
- pfps: nothing new to add
- 17:19:01 [Massimo]
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- 17:21:09 [nmg]
- seanb: testcases for structure-sharing would be useful
- 17:21:35 [nmg]
- jimh: two choices 1. approve B1/B2, wait for proof later. disproof would mean design change
- 17:22:20 [nmg]
- jimh: choice 2. incorrect implementations
- 17:22:42 [Zakim]
- +Massimo
- 17:24:35 [nmg]
- STRAW POLL: adopting structreu sharing seems to cause a risk that a proof be hard to find, not adopting structure sharing seems to have performance risks
- 17:24:56 [nmg]
- pfps: tricky to fix document at later date (if disproof)
- 17:25:09 [DanC]
- poll yeilded several for adopting structure sharing, one against
- 17:25:37 [DanC]
- s/performance risks/conformance risks/
- 17:25:49 [nmg]
- sorry, bad line
- 17:25:56 [guus]
- q+
- 17:26:33 [DanC]
- ack danc
- 17:26:33 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to ask if this aspect of 5.26 is represented in the test spec yet
- 17:27:47 [nmg]
- guus: this is design change of language - is it really something we can push in at a leter point?
- 17:29:21 [guus]
- q-
- 17:30:26 [nmg]
- jimh: not hard to fix things (addition/removal of B1/B2) during LC period
- 17:32:35 [nmg]
- jimh: pfps, could you get us a proof by end of LC?
- 17:32:48 [nmg]
- pfps: yes, can spend the time
- 17:33:16 [nmg]
- jjc: better not to go in before LC (and then add during LC)
- 17:35:56 [nmg]
- ACTION: pfps to work on proof
- 17:36:34 [nmg]
- RESOLVED to close the issue 5.26, accepting all the points from the original docuemtn except B1,B1
- 17:36:40 [nmg]
- b1,b"
- 17:36:44 [nmg]
- B2 even
- 17:36:57 [nmg]
- jjc objects
- 17:37:11 [nmg]
- danc, obrst, deroo abstain
- 17:37:28 [nmg]
- 3.0 (60 min) LAST CALL DECISION
- 17:37:34 [DanC]
- jjc, comments on this from HP are much more in order with you objecting
- 17:37:35 [nmg]
- 3.1 Review of Document Related Actions:
- 17:37:41 [DanC]
- (comments during last call)
- 17:38:39 [nmg]
- CTIONS: pfps, jos, smith, guus to update documents to reflect decision on datatypes - DONE
- 17:38:51 [nmg]
- ACTION: JimH to write MikeS to insert in guide some words about security and privacy issues - DONE
- 17:39:07 [nmg]
- ACTION: Chairs to contact JeffH to add ref section to req doc - DONE
- 17:39:50 [nmg]
- ACTION: JeffH to add ref section to req doc
- 17:40:08 [nmg]
- ACTION: DanC - will investigate question of adding to allDifferent list. No reply by next Tuesday (25/3) means do what he likes - DONEthat it is up to editor to
- 17:40:16 [nmg]
- ACTION: JimH review of reference doc - DONE
- 17:40:33 [nmg]
- ACTION: pfps, Jos to add broken RDF datatype test to test suite - DONE
- 17:40:49 [nmg]
- ACTION: JimH to report to coordination group on model theory issue - DONE, later report
- 17:40:58 [nmg]
- ACTION: GuusS to update ref to reflect deprecated class being subclass of RDFS class and not OWL class - DONE
- 17:41:10 [nmg]
- ACTION: pfps to review (at least) section 8 of Ref doc. - DONE
- 17:41:15 [nmg]
- 3.2 Review of Document Status
- 17:41:55 [DanC]
- docs I found: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0215.html
- 17:42:03 [DanC]
- Web Ontology Language (OWL) Use Cases and Requirements
- 17:42:03 [DanC]
- http://www.cse.lehigh.edu/~heflin/webont/reqdoc/index.html
- 17:42:03 [DanC]
- Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:28:51 GMT
- 17:42:03 [DanC]
- md5sum 88aa805134ea739a95ae62a72c89bd50
- 17:42:05 [nmg]
- 3.2.1 Requirements - ready for LC (references to be added later)
- 17:43:04 [nmg]
- jimh,danc: changes from heflin agreed with danc are acceptable
- 17:43:17 [DanC]
- OWL Web Ontology Language Overview
- 17:43:17 [DanC]
- http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm/webont/OWLOverview.htm
- 17:43:17 [DanC]
- Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:04:49 GMT
- 17:43:17 [DanC]
- md5sum a2040620555c3e3e836a85447feab61e
- 17:43:24 [nmg]
- 3.2.2 Overview - ready for LC (any post- LC editing changes planned?)
- 17:43:42 [nmg]
- 3.2.3 Guide - ready for LC (any post- LC editing changes planned?)
- 17:43:50 [DanC]
- OWL Web Ontology Language Guide
- 17:43:50 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/guide-src/Guide.html
- 17:43:50 [DanC]
- Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:31:51 GMT
- 17:43:50 [DanC]
- md5sum 0534c788afb352b2b78123e4dcadd1b8
- 17:44:17 [DanC]
- NOTE: wine.owl and food.owl also
- 17:44:43 [nmg]
- 3.2.4 References - reviewed and ready for LC (any post- LC editing changes planned?)
- 17:44:44 [DanC]
- http://www.daml.org/2002/06/webont/owl-ref-proposed OWL Web Ontology Language
- 17:44:44 [DanC]
- Reference
- 17:44:44 [DanC]
- Editor's Draft document - no W3C status at this time
- 17:44:44 [DanC]
- This version:
- 17:44:44 [DanC]
- March 27, 2003, 12.05 EST
- 17:45:01 [DanC]
- Thu, 27 Mar 2003 17:08:36 GMT
- 17:46:10 [nmg]
- jimh: WG happy to let guus, mike, danc resolve niggles?
- 17:46:20 [nmg]
- guus: all comments incorporated - should be okay
- 17:46:40 [jjc]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0229.html
- 17:46:40 [jjc]
- My msg concerning reference 7.1
- 17:46:41 [nmg]
- mike: okay with merge of changes
- 17:46:54 [nmg]
- thanks, jjc
- 17:47:16 [DanC]
- only MikeD and DanC in critical path for REF
- 17:47:16 [nmg]
- 3.2.5 Test - ready for LC (report on post LC changes planned)
- 17:47:22 [nmg]
- 3.2.6 S&AS - ready for LC? (dependent on 2.0 outcome, plus changes planned)
- 17:47:31 [nmg]
- pfps: current version is 'as good as it gets'
- 17:47:38 [Raphael]
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- 17:47:43 [DanC]
- http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/semantics/semantics-all.html Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:14:11 GMT
- 17:48:06 [Raphael]
- Raphael has just joined via IRC. Will vote via Sean's telephone
- 17:48:20 [nmg]
- noted
- 17:49:30 [nmg]
- jjc: OntologyProperty issue with AS&S
- 17:50:42 [nmg]
- jjc: could be addressed during LC
- 17:50:55 [DanC]
- the WG hasn't made any decision on this. jjc's editorial suggestion hasn't been adopted by the editor
- 17:54:53 [DanC]
- [... discussion of the dependency on the RDF semantics document ...]
- 18:00:01 [nmg]
- jimh: S*AS ready for LC, adanc and pfps to put words in to reflect relationship to RDF LC semantics docs
- 18:00:24 [DanC]
- ... words *not* exclusive to datatypes.
- 18:00:46 [nmg]
- thanks
- 18:01:42 [nmg]
- 3.2.5 Test
- 18:02:29 [nmg]
- jjc: still some work to do re: datatypes (jos's action from last week)
- 18:03:59 [nmg]
- jjc: danc's outstanding request for multi-doc tests in todo section of document - in progress
- 18:05:02 [Zakim]
- -ian
- 18:05:24 [nmg]
- DanC: publish text only, link to tests?
- 18:05:34 [nmg]
- JosD: not really acceptable, happy with doc as it stands
- 18:07:30 [jjc]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2003Mar/att-0083/M
- 18:08:55 [jjc]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2003Mar/att-0083/L#FunctionalProperty-004
- 18:10:22 [nmg]
- jjc: publish test as WD at same time as LC for other docs, publish test as LC later
- 18:11:59 [seanb]
- http://www.w3.org/2002/03owlt/allValuesFrom/conclusions001.rdf
- 18:12:13 [seanb]
- claimed as Lite, but the property is not typed.....
- 18:12:34 [jjc]
- thanks sean
- 18:12:51 [jhendler]
- Proposed: to move ALL of our documents (except Test for now) to LC
- 18:13:00 [DanC]
- Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:11:54 GMT http://www.daml.org/2002/06/webont/owl-ref-proposed
- 18:13:13 [DanC]
- ^MikeD confirms
- 18:14:04 [nmg]
- pfps abstains
- 18:14:20 [jhendler]
- Proxies in favor: Borden, Dale, Wallace, Heflin, McGuinness
- 18:14:59 [nmg]
- RESOLVED by consensus to move ALL of our documents (except Test for now) to LC
- 18:15:38 [nmg]
- 3.4 (dependent on 3.3) dates suggested by Coordination Group
- 18:15:49 [Raphael]
- Raphael has left #webont
- 18:16:01 [nmg]
- jimh: five weeks (until either 5th or 9th - to confirm)
- 18:17:06 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html
- 18:18:04 [nmg]
- $Revision: 1.51 $ of $Date: 2003/03/27 16:38:59 $
- 18:19:20 [guus]
- Jim, just checked the SWCG record. It is May 9 as proposed end of LC
- 18:19:27 [nmg]
- DanC: 5.6, 5.17 closed over abstention
- 18:19:40 [nmg]
- DanC: no
- 18:19:47 [nmg]
- DanC: as is 5.26
- 18:20:05 [nmg]
- DanC: no objector listed for 5.17, treat as abstention
- 18:20:17 [nmg]
- correction: 5.6, 5.17 closed over objection
- 18:22:28 [nmg]
- [handling of LC comments]
- 18:22:50 [nmg]
- pfps: RDF Core handling not useful (splitting messages into separate issues)
- 18:23:21 [nmg]
- DanC: after LC, until you hear from the chairs, do not respond on behalf of the WG
- 18:23:45 [nmg]
- ACTION: chairs to send email to WG discusssing handling of LC comments
- 18:23:46 [DanC]
- feel free to respond *explicitly not on behalf of the WG*
- 18:24:20 [nmg]
- [returning to 3.2.5]
- 18:25:17 [nmg]
- DanC: propose to publish whatever jjc gives me (by a date in consultation with jjc)
- 18:27:55 [nmg]
- [...discussion of delay in LC resease of test after other LC releases...]
- 18:31:12 [nmg]
- jjc: we should release a WD now with a note saying that we ask for implementor feedback
- 18:31:19 [Zakim]
- -obrst
- 18:32:23 [guus]
- ls
- 18:34:52 [nmg]
- 5) AOB (0-5 min)
- 18:34:54 [Zakim]
- -??P46
- 18:35:04 [nmg]
- chairs and W3c team rep thank participants for their efforts ;)
- 18:36:09 [Zakim]
- -M_Smith
- 18:36:10 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 18:36:11 [Zakim]
- -LynnT
- 18:36:12 [Zakim]
- -ziv
- 18:36:13 [Zakim]
- -herman
- 18:36:13 [Zakim]
- -pfps
- 18:36:14 [Zakim]
- -jeremy
- 18:36:15 [Zakim]
- -jos
- 18:36:16 [Zakim]
- -NickG
- 18:36:18 [Zakim]
- -Massimo
- 18:36:20 [Zakim]
- -Sean
- 18:36:22 [Zakim]
- -hori
- 18:36:24 [Zakim]
- -Mike_Dean
- 18:36:26 [Zakim]
- -Marwan_Sabbouh
- 18:37:05 [seanb]
- seanb has left #webont
- 18:39:55 [Zakim]
- -JeromeE
- 18:41:19 [Zakim]
- -guus
- 18:41:20 [Zakim]
- -JimH
- 18:41:21 [Zakim]
- SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
- 18:44:24 [DanC]
- Hi Massimo... I was thinking about asking you to help with these publications, but I didn't get around to it.
- 18:44:34 [DanC]
- Are you likely to be available tomorrow and monday to pitch in?
- 18:45:38 [jhendler]
- DanC - Guus and I will talk on Monday after CG to work out details of handling LC comments, wouldwelcome your inputs
- 18:46:06 [DanC]
- sounds good... better: ask to talk about it during CG?
- 18:46:30 [DanC]
- in either case, if you can send some thoughs to semweb-cg before monday's telcon, I expect it'll be time well spent
- 20:25:05 [jhendler]
- jhendler has joined #webont
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