IRC log of webont on 2003-01-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:48:22 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webont
16:48:29 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #webont
16:48:44 [jhendler]
zakim, this is Web_ontology
16:48:46 [Zakim]
sorry, jhendler, I do not see a conference named 'Web_ontology'
16:51:43 [jhendler]
zakim, this is SW_Webont
16:51:44 [Zakim]
sorry, jhendler, I do not see a conference named 'SW_Webont'
16:51:56 [jhendler]
zakim, this is SW_WebOnt
16:51:57 [Zakim]
sorry, jhendler, I do not see a conference named 'SW_WebOnt'
16:52:55 [jhendler]
zakim, list
16:52:56 [Zakim]
I see no active conferences
16:53:47 [jhendler]
zakim, this will be SW_WebOnt
16:53:48 [Zakim]
ok, jhendler
16:57:58 [IanH]
IanH has joined #webont
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SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
16:58:45 [Zakim]
+??P0
16:59:24 [DanC]
DanC has joined #webont
16:59:27 [Zakim]
+??P1
16:59:44 [Zakim]
+??P2
17:00:35 [Zakim]
+??P3
17:00:52 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p3 is jimH
17:00:53 [Zakim]
+JimH; got it
17:01:11 [jhendler]
jhendler has changed the topic to: Web Ontology Working group telecon - 2003-01-02
17:01:41 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p3 is Mike Dean
17:01:42 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??p3 is Mike Dean', jhendler
17:01:47 [Zakim]
+Ian_Horrocks
17:01:48 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p3 is Mike_D
17:01:49 [Zakim]
sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named '??p3'
17:01:50 [Zakim]
+??P5
17:02:02 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p1 is masahiro
17:02:03 [Zakim]
+Masahiro; got it
17:02:20 [Zakim]
+John_Stanton
17:02:22 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
17:02:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Stanton, ??P0, Masahiro, ??P2, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, ??P5
17:02:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger
17:03:29 [jhendler]
agenda link: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jan/0002.html
17:04:05 [Zakim]
+??P7
17:04:06 [Zakim]
+??P8
17:04:16 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p7 is hermanT
17:04:18 [Zakim]
+HermanT; got it
17:04:35 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p8 is Leo
17:04:36 [Zakim]
+Leo; got it
17:04:45 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p5 is Marwan
17:04:46 [Zakim]
+Marwan; got it
17:05:01 [Zakim]
+??P9
17:05:14 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p9 is frankvH
17:05:15 [Zakim]
+FrankvH; got it
17:05:17 [Zakim]
+??P10
17:05:28 [Zakim]
+??P11
17:05:33 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p10 is peterPS
17:05:34 [Zakim]
+PeterPS; got it
17:05:40 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p11 us DebM
17:05:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??p11 us DebM', jhendler
17:05:41 [Zakim]
+??P12
17:05:46 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p11 is DebM
17:05:47 [Zakim]
+DebM; got it
17:05:51 [Zakim]
+??P13
17:05:53 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p12 is Ziv
17:05:54 [Zakim]
+Ziv; got it
17:06:02 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p13 is guus
17:06:03 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
17:06:10 [DeborahMc]
DeborahMc has joined #webont
17:06:47 [pfps]
pfps has joined #webont
17:07:05 [jhendler]
Chair: Guus Schreiber
17:07:10 [jhendler]
Scribe: Jim Hendler
17:07:22 [guus]
guus has joined #webont
17:07:24 [jhendler]
regrets for DanC, Massimo.
17:08:20 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
17:08:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Stanton, HermanT, Leo, FrankvH, PeterPS, DebM, Ziv, Guus, ??P0, Masahiro, ??P2, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, Marwan
17:08:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see guus, pfps, DeborahMc, DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger
17:08:59 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p0 is MikeD
17:09:00 [Zakim]
+MikeD; got it
17:09:06 [jhendler]
zakim,??p2 is JeffH
17:09:11 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here
17:09:13 [Zakim]
jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'
17:09:14 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
17:09:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Stanton, HermanT, Leo, FrankvH, PeterPS, DebM, Ziv, Guus, MikeD, Masahiro, ??P2, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, Marwan
17:09:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see guus, pfps, DeborahMc, DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger
17:09:20 [FvH]
FvH has joined #webont
17:09:31 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p2 is JeffH
17:09:32 [Zakim]
+JeffH; got it
17:09:33 [FvH]
FvH has left #webont
17:09:41 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here
17:09:43 [Zakim]
jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'
17:09:45 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
17:09:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Stanton, HermanT, Leo, FrankvH, PeterPS, DebM, Ziv, Guus, MikeD, Masahiro, JeffH, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, Marwan
17:09:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see guus, pfps, DeborahMc, DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger
17:09:54 [FvH]
FvH has joined #webont
17:10:11 [jhendler]
---------------
17:10:42 [jhendler]
Meetings record - accept Dec 19 notes - minutes approved (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Dec/0272.html)
17:10:45 [jhendler]
--
17:10:59 [jhendler]
no agenda amendments
17:11:10 [jhendler]
no telecon on Jan 9, next telecon Jan 16
17:11:16 [jhendler]
zakim, pick a scribe
17:11:17 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose John_Stanton
17:11:44 [jhendler]
scribe for 16th - John Stanton
17:11:48 [jhendler]
----------
17:11:59 [jhendler]
f2f update - links in agenda
17:12:29 [Zakim]
+??P14
17:13:00 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p14 is TimF
17:13:01 [Zakim]
+TimF; got it
17:14:32 [jhendler]
ACTION: JimH to add f2f agenda link to the Web Ont home page
17:14:57 [jhendler]
------------
17:14:59 [jhendler]
Action review
17:15:36 [timfinin]
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17:15:41 [jhendler]
Action on John Borden re: media types - done by Mike D.
17:15:56 [jhendler]
Action on DanC re: MIME and IETF - continued
17:16:14 [jhendler]
Action on MikeD to produce examples - continued (Due Jan 9)
17:16:47 [jhendler]
Action on PeterPS to bring XML up to date - done - MikeD needs pointer
17:18:15 [jhendler]
Action on Guus re: UML - cont
17:18:32 [jhendler]
note: UML syntax at risk if not in by f2f.
17:18:40 [jhendler]
----------------
17:19:03 [jhendler]
2.0 Issue clean up (unique names)
17:19:51 [jhendler]
chair's reopen issue "Unique Names Assumption"
17:20:22 [jhendler]
pfps: the proposal by Dan causes some problems,
17:20:31 [jhendler]
summarizes what is in; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Dec/0124.html
17:20:42 [Zakim]
+M_Smith
17:21:21 [jhendler]
peter proposes we revoke our previous decision
17:22:07 [hth]
hth has joined #webont
17:29:59 [jhendler]
syntactic problems with the alldifferent noted
17:30:17 [jhendler]
ACTION: JimH to write up a proposed closure to this issue to be finalized at f2f and added to documents
17:30:52 [jhendler]
-------------
17:31:05 [jhendler]
3.0 Document status
17:36:20 [jjc]
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17:38:13 [Zakim]
+??P16
17:38:29 [jjc]
Zakim, ??PI1 is jjc
17:38:31 [Zakim]
sorry, jjc, I do not recognize a party named '??PI1'
17:38:36 [jjc]
Zakim, ??P16 is jjc
17:38:37 [Zakim]
+Jjc; got it
17:38:44 [jhendler]
Jeff: requirements - generally close
17:38:45 [Zakim]
-Leo
17:38:53 [jjc]
Zakim, mute jjc
17:38:54 [Zakim]
Jjc should now be muted
17:38:56 [jhendler]
Jeff: metafat req needs to be reworded
17:39:04 [jhendler]
s/metafat/metadata
17:39:52 [jhendler]
[there is a problem with irc chat at this point - some messages missing - will fix in final log]
17:41:06 [jhendler]
Deb: header info to be dealt with - Deb, suiggest header is in OWL Lite
17:41:59 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc
17:41:59 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc
17:42:00 [Zakim]
Jjc was not muted, jjc
17:42:01 [Zakim]
Jjc was not muted, jjc
17:42:02 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc.
17:42:03 [Zakim]
sorry, jjc, I do not see a party named 'jjc.'
17:42:22 [jhendler]
WG does not object to header info being in Lite
17:43:51 [jhendler]
question about Full - do we include class as instance and/or inverseFunctional
17:45:14 [jhendler]
discussion of header info v. sublanguage types
17:46:31 [jjc]
Zakim, mute jjc
17:46:32 [Zakim]
Jjc should now be muted
17:47:45 [jhendler]
discussion of how to mention dublin core in features
17:49:16 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc
17:49:17 [Zakim]
Jjc should no longer be muted
17:50:37 [jjc]
Zakim, mute jjc
17:50:38 [Zakim]
Jjc should now be muted
17:51:16 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc
17:51:17 [Zakim]
Jjc should no longer be muted
17:51:24 [jjc]
Zakim, mute jjc
17:51:26 [Zakim]
Jjc should now be muted
17:52:07 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc
17:52:08 [Zakim]
Jjc should no longer be muted
17:54:17 [jjc]
Zakim, mute jjc
17:54:18 [Zakim]
Jjc should now be muted
17:54:35 [jhendler]
proposal - that this be called an "informative" document - accepted by editors
17:57:22 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc
17:57:23 [Zakim]
Jjc should no longer be muted
18:01:16 [jhendler]
Guus: given that reference is authorative and feature synopsis informative, and that we keep both in our LC docs
18:01:41 [jhendler]
------
18:01:43 [jjc]
Zakim, mute jjc
18:01:45 [Zakim]
Jjc should now be muted
18:01:53 [jhendler]
reference: discussion
18:02:21 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute jjc
18:02:22 [Zakim]
Jjc should no longer be muted
18:04:19 [jhendler]
suggestion that reference document should be extended
18:05:06 [jjc]
Zakim, mute jjc
18:05:07 [Zakim]
Jjc should now be muted
18:05:36 [jhendler]
Mike - still need to address comments, been working on new stuff (versioning) and also identifying the appropriate levels
18:05:51 [Zakim]
-Jjc
18:06:11 [jhendler]
Mike - read through reviews - plan to incorporate from Peter
18:06:19 [jhendler]
Mike - will try to fix those
18:06:29 [jhendler]
Mike - need to get the datatyping stuff right
18:06:52 [jhendler]
Mike - need to add XML and then can freeze
18:07:01 [jhendler]
Mike - will remove all links to issues
18:07:44 [jhendler]
Mike - need to label normative v. non-normative
18:08:35 [jhendler]
Mike - needs to add a layering thing
18:09:06 [jjc]
sorry I need to go ...
18:11:49 [jhendler]
Mike - some concern over growth of size of this doc, but probably okay for now
18:12:08 [jhendler]
Mike - I will send email summarizing changes and presenting the f2f version
18:14:38 [jhendler]
---------
18:14:53 [jhendler]
Guus - reminder - there will be time at the f2f to work on documents
18:15:36 [jhendler]
----------
18:16:50 [jhendler]
Semantics
18:17:11 [jhendler]
Peter - summary: I think that I have addressed all the comments
18:17:37 [jhendler]
with exception of expanding proof sketch in A.2 to a full proof - may be too hard to do in time
18:18:07 [jhendler]
Deb: did you include the layering (informative) stuff ? Peter, yes
18:18:15 [jhendler]
Peter: have lots of anchors and things to add
18:20:15 [jhendler]
Peter - I will work out how to index, and to make a naming scheme for them
18:20:59 [jhendler]
Peter and Mike S. need to figure that out.
18:22:19 [jhendler]
ACTION: Peter and Mike S. to work out how to do table and cross-reference in Guide for Semantics
18:24:07 [jhendler]
Peter really needs more reviews, particularly of technical details
18:24:11 [jhendler]
---------
18:24:12 [jhendler]
Guide
18:24:41 [jhendler]
MikeS: I incorporated the Ontoweb comments, and am working on reviews received
18:25:45 [jhendler]
Mike: checking details of what are NOT in food or wine so we can handle those
18:27:31 [jhendler]
note: the WG agreed to "backwardCompatibleWith"
18:29:28 [jhendler]
ACTION: Guus to create a simple example of class as instance for the Guide
18:29:32 [jhendler]
===========
18:31:48 [jhendler]
Discussion of issue clean up (re: a keyword or property for layering)
18:31:57 [jhendler]
there does not seem to be consensus on a solution
18:32:09 [jhendler]
suggestion to move this to a FAQ and put thought into this later
18:32:48 [jhendler]
Peter: having some way of doing it is good, but I don't really like the way Mike suggested
18:33:04 [jhendler]
Peter: but using inclusion relationships seems problemativ
18:33:13 [jhendler]
Frank: also be another place to cause problems
18:35:12 [jhendler]
no action to be taken on this now
18:35:51 [jhendler]
we will consider doing an annotation solution in the FAQ after the LC docs go out
18:35:53 [jhendler]
---------
18:35:56 [jhendler]
WG schedule
18:38:11 [jhendler]
ADJOURNED
18:38:41 [Zakim]
-Guus
18:38:42 [Zakim]
-John_Stanton
18:39:40 [Zakim]
-TimF
18:42:30 [hth]
hth has left #webont
18:44:45 [Zakim]
-M_Smith
18:44:46 [Zakim]
-JimH
18:44:47 [Zakim]
-FrankvH
18:44:47 [Zakim]
-HermanT
18:44:48 [Zakim]
-Ziv
18:44:51 [Zakim]
-PeterPS
18:44:52 [Zakim]
-MikeD
18:44:53 [Zakim]
-Marwan
18:44:55 [Zakim]
-Masahiro
18:44:56 [Zakim]
-Ian_Horrocks
18:44:59 [Zakim]
-JeffH
18:45:10 [Zakim]
-DebM
18:45:11 [Zakim]
SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
18:48:55 [jhendler]
zakim, goodbye
18:48:56 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'goodbye', jhendler
18:49:50 [jhendler]
zakim, bye
18:49:51 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #webont
18:50:01 [jhendler]
RRSAgent, bye
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items:
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JimH to add f2f agenda link to the Web Ont home page [1]
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T17-14-32
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JimH to write up a proposed closure to this issue to be finalized at f2f and added to documents [2]
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T17-30-17
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Peter and Mike S. to work out how to do table and cross-reference in Guide for Semantics [3]
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T18-22-19
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to create a simple example of class as instance for the Guide [4]
18:50:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T18-29-28