IRC log of webont on 2003-01-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:48:22 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #webont

16:48:29 [Zakim]

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16:48:44 [jhendler]

zakim, this is Web_ontology

16:48:46 [Zakim]

sorry, jhendler, I do not see a conference named 'Web_ontology'

16:51:43 [jhendler]

zakim, this is SW_Webont

16:51:44 [Zakim]

sorry, jhendler, I do not see a conference named 'SW_Webont'

16:51:56 [jhendler]

zakim, this is SW_WebOnt

16:51:57 [Zakim]

sorry, jhendler, I do not see a conference named 'SW_WebOnt'

16:52:55 [jhendler]

zakim, list

16:52:56 [Zakim]

I see no active conferences

16:53:47 [jhendler]

zakim, this will be SW_WebOnt

16:53:48 [Zakim]

ok, jhendler

16:57:58 [IanH]

IanH has joined #webont

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SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started

16:58:45 [Zakim]

+??P0

16:59:24 [DanC]

DanC has joined #webont

16:59:27 [Zakim]

+??P1

16:59:44 [Zakim]

+??P2

17:00:35 [Zakim]

+??P3

17:00:52 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p3 is jimH

17:00:53 [Zakim]

+JimH; got it

17:01:11 [jhendler]

jhendler has changed the topic to: Web Ontology Working group telecon - 2003-01-02

17:01:41 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p3 is Mike Dean

17:01:42 [Zakim]

I don't understand '??p3 is Mike Dean', jhendler

17:01:47 [Zakim]

+Ian_Horrocks

17:01:48 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p3 is Mike_D

17:01:49 [Zakim]

sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named '??p3'

17:01:50 [Zakim]

+??P5

17:02:02 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p1 is masahiro

17:02:03 [Zakim]

+Masahiro; got it

17:02:20 [Zakim]

+John_Stanton

17:02:22 [jhendler]

zakim, who is here?

17:02:23 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John_Stanton, ??P0, Masahiro, ??P2, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, ??P5

17:02:24 [Zakim]

On IRC I see DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger

17:03:29 [jhendler]

agenda link: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jan/0002.html

17:04:05 [Zakim]

+??P7

17:04:06 [Zakim]

+??P8

17:04:16 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p7 is hermanT

17:04:18 [Zakim]

+HermanT; got it

17:04:35 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p8 is Leo

17:04:36 [Zakim]

+Leo; got it

17:04:45 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p5 is Marwan

17:04:46 [Zakim]

+Marwan; got it

17:05:01 [Zakim]

+??P9

17:05:14 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p9 is frankvH

17:05:15 [Zakim]

+FrankvH; got it

17:05:17 [Zakim]

+??P10

17:05:28 [Zakim]

+??P11

17:05:33 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p10 is peterPS

17:05:34 [Zakim]

+PeterPS; got it

17:05:40 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p11 us DebM

17:05:41 [Zakim]

I don't understand '??p11 us DebM', jhendler

17:05:41 [Zakim]

+??P12

17:05:46 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p11 is DebM

17:05:47 [Zakim]

+DebM; got it

17:05:51 [Zakim]

+??P13

17:05:53 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p12 is Ziv

17:05:54 [Zakim]

+Ziv; got it

17:06:02 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p13 is guus

17:06:03 [Zakim]

+Guus; got it

17:06:10 [DeborahMc]

DeborahMc has joined #webont

17:06:47 [pfps]

pfps has joined #webont

17:07:05 [jhendler]

Chair: Guus Schreiber

17:07:10 [jhendler]

Scribe: Jim Hendler

17:07:22 [guus]

guus has joined #webont

17:07:24 [jhendler]

regrets for DanC, Massimo.

17:08:20 [jhendler]

zakim, who is here?

17:08:22 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John_Stanton, HermanT, Leo, FrankvH, PeterPS, DebM, Ziv, Guus, ??P0, Masahiro, ??P2, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, Marwan

17:08:23 [Zakim]

On IRC I see guus, pfps, DeborahMc, DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger

17:08:59 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p0 is MikeD

17:09:00 [Zakim]

+MikeD; got it

17:09:06 [jhendler]

zakim,??p2 is JeffH

17:09:11 [jhendler]

zakim, who is here

17:09:13 [Zakim]

jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'

17:09:14 [jhendler]

zakim, who is here?

17:09:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John_Stanton, HermanT, Leo, FrankvH, PeterPS, DebM, Ziv, Guus, MikeD, Masahiro, ??P2, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, Marwan

17:09:16 [Zakim]

On IRC I see guus, pfps, DeborahMc, DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger

17:09:20 [FvH]

FvH has joined #webont

17:09:31 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p2 is JeffH

17:09:32 [Zakim]

+JeffH; got it

17:09:33 [FvH]

FvH has left #webont

17:09:41 [jhendler]

zakim, who is here

17:09:43 [Zakim]

jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'

17:09:45 [jhendler]

zakim, who is here?

17:09:46 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John_Stanton, HermanT, Leo, FrankvH, PeterPS, DebM, Ziv, Guus, MikeD, Masahiro, JeffH, JimH, Ian_Horrocks, Marwan

17:09:47 [Zakim]

On IRC I see guus, pfps, DeborahMc, DanC, IanH, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhendler, mdean, logger

17:09:54 [FvH]

FvH has joined #webont

17:10:11 [jhendler]

---------------

17:10:42 [jhendler]

Meetings record - accept Dec 19 notes - minutes approved (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Dec/0272.html)

17:10:45 [jhendler]

--

17:10:59 [jhendler]

no agenda amendments

17:11:10 [jhendler]

no telecon on Jan 9, next telecon Jan 16

17:11:16 [jhendler]

zakim, pick a scribe

17:11:17 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose John_Stanton

17:11:44 [jhendler]

scribe for 16th - John Stanton

17:11:48 [jhendler]

----------

17:11:59 [jhendler]

f2f update - links in agenda

17:12:29 [Zakim]

+??P14

17:13:00 [jhendler]

zakim, ??p14 is TimF

17:13:01 [Zakim]

+TimF; got it

17:14:32 [jhendler]

ACTION: JimH to add f2f agenda link to the Web Ont home page

17:14:57 [jhendler]

------------

17:14:59 [jhendler]

Action review

17:15:36 [timfinin]

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17:15:41 [jhendler]

Action on John Borden re: media types - done by Mike D.

17:15:56 [jhendler]

Action on DanC re: MIME and IETF - continued

17:16:14 [jhendler]

Action on MikeD to produce examples - continued (Due Jan 9)

17:16:47 [jhendler]

Action on PeterPS to bring XML up to date - done - MikeD needs pointer

17:18:15 [jhendler]

Action on Guus re: UML - cont

17:18:32 [jhendler]

note: UML syntax at risk if not in by f2f.

17:18:40 [jhendler]

----------------

17:19:03 [jhendler]

2.0 Issue clean up (unique names)

17:19:51 [jhendler]

chair's reopen issue "Unique Names Assumption"

17:20:22 [jhendler]

pfps: the proposal by Dan causes some problems,

17:20:31 [jhendler]

summarizes what is in; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Dec/0124.html

17:20:42 [Zakim]

+M_Smith

17:21:21 [jhendler]

peter proposes we revoke our previous decision

17:22:07 [hth]

hth has joined #webont

17:29:59 [jhendler]

syntactic problems with the alldifferent noted

17:30:17 [jhendler]

ACTION: JimH to write up a proposed closure to this issue to be finalized at f2f and added to documents

17:30:52 [jhendler]

-------------

17:31:05 [jhendler]

3.0 Document status

17:36:20 [jjc]

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17:38:13 [Zakim]

+??P16

17:38:29 [jjc]

Zakim, ??PI1 is jjc

17:38:31 [Zakim]

sorry, jjc, I do not recognize a party named '??PI1'

17:38:36 [jjc]

Zakim, ??P16 is jjc

17:38:37 [Zakim]

+Jjc; got it

17:38:44 [jhendler]

Jeff: requirements - generally close

17:38:45 [Zakim]

-Leo

17:38:53 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

17:38:54 [Zakim]

Jjc should now be muted

17:38:56 [jhendler]

Jeff: metafat req needs to be reworded

17:39:04 [jhendler]

s/metafat/metadata

17:39:52 [jhendler]

[there is a problem with irc chat at this point - some messages missing - will fix in final log]

17:41:06 [jhendler]

Deb: header info to be dealt with - Deb, suiggest header is in OWL Lite

17:41:59 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

17:41:59 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

17:42:00 [Zakim]

Jjc was not muted, jjc

17:42:01 [Zakim]

Jjc was not muted, jjc

17:42:02 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc.

17:42:03 [Zakim]

sorry, jjc, I do not see a party named 'jjc.'

17:42:22 [jhendler]

WG does not object to header info being in Lite

17:43:51 [jhendler]

question about Full - do we include class as instance and/or inverseFunctional

17:45:14 [jhendler]

discussion of header info v. sublanguage types

17:46:31 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

17:46:32 [Zakim]

Jjc should now be muted

17:47:45 [jhendler]

discussion of how to mention dublin core in features

17:49:16 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

17:49:17 [Zakim]

Jjc should no longer be muted

17:50:37 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

17:50:38 [Zakim]

Jjc should now be muted

17:51:16 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

17:51:17 [Zakim]

Jjc should no longer be muted

17:51:24 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

17:51:26 [Zakim]

Jjc should now be muted

17:52:07 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

17:52:08 [Zakim]

Jjc should no longer be muted

17:54:17 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

17:54:18 [Zakim]

Jjc should now be muted

17:54:35 [jhendler]

proposal - that this be called an "informative" document - accepted by editors

17:57:22 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

17:57:23 [Zakim]

Jjc should no longer be muted

18:01:16 [jhendler]

Guus: given that reference is authorative and feature synopsis informative, and that we keep both in our LC docs

18:01:41 [jhendler]

------

18:01:43 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

18:01:45 [Zakim]

Jjc should now be muted

18:01:53 [jhendler]

reference: discussion

18:02:21 [jjc]

Zakim, unmute jjc

18:02:22 [Zakim]

Jjc should no longer be muted

18:04:19 [jhendler]

suggestion that reference document should be extended

18:05:06 [jjc]

Zakim, mute jjc

18:05:07 [Zakim]

Jjc should now be muted

18:05:36 [jhendler]

Mike - still need to address comments, been working on new stuff (versioning) and also identifying the appropriate levels

18:05:51 [Zakim]

-Jjc

18:06:11 [jhendler]

Mike - read through reviews - plan to incorporate from Peter

18:06:19 [jhendler]

Mike - will try to fix those

18:06:29 [jhendler]

Mike - need to get the datatyping stuff right

18:06:52 [jhendler]

Mike - need to add XML and then can freeze

18:07:01 [jhendler]

Mike - will remove all links to issues

18:07:44 [jhendler]

Mike - need to label normative v. non-normative

18:08:35 [jhendler]

Mike - needs to add a layering thing

18:09:06 [jjc]

sorry I need to go ...

18:11:49 [jhendler]

Mike - some concern over growth of size of this doc, but probably okay for now

18:12:08 [jhendler]

Mike - I will send email summarizing changes and presenting the f2f version

18:14:38 [jhendler]

---------

18:14:53 [jhendler]

Guus - reminder - there will be time at the f2f to work on documents

18:15:36 [jhendler]

----------

18:16:50 [jhendler]

Semantics

18:17:11 [jhendler]

Peter - summary: I think that I have addressed all the comments

18:17:37 [jhendler]

with exception of expanding proof sketch in A.2 to a full proof - may be too hard to do in time

18:18:07 [jhendler]

Deb: did you include the layering (informative) stuff ? Peter, yes

18:18:15 [jhendler]

Peter: have lots of anchors and things to add

18:20:15 [jhendler]

Peter - I will work out how to index, and to make a naming scheme for them

18:20:59 [jhendler]

Peter and Mike S. need to figure that out.

18:22:19 [jhendler]

ACTION: Peter and Mike S. to work out how to do table and cross-reference in Guide for Semantics

18:24:07 [jhendler]

Peter really needs more reviews, particularly of technical details

18:24:11 [jhendler]

---------

18:24:12 [jhendler]

Guide

18:24:41 [jhendler]

MikeS: I incorporated the Ontoweb comments, and am working on reviews received

18:25:45 [jhendler]

Mike: checking details of what are NOT in food or wine so we can handle those

18:27:31 [jhendler]

note: the WG agreed to "backwardCompatibleWith"

18:29:28 [jhendler]

ACTION: Guus to create a simple example of class as instance for the Guide

18:29:32 [jhendler]

===========

18:31:48 [jhendler]

Discussion of issue clean up (re: a keyword or property for layering)

18:31:57 [jhendler]

there does not seem to be consensus on a solution

18:32:09 [jhendler]

suggestion to move this to a FAQ and put thought into this later

18:32:48 [jhendler]

Peter: having some way of doing it is good, but I don't really like the way Mike suggested

18:33:04 [jhendler]

Peter: but using inclusion relationships seems problemativ

18:33:13 [jhendler]

Frank: also be another place to cause problems

18:35:12 [jhendler]

no action to be taken on this now

18:35:51 [jhendler]

we will consider doing an annotation solution in the FAQ after the LC docs go out

18:35:53 [jhendler]

---------

18:35:56 [jhendler]

WG schedule

18:38:11 [jhendler]

ADJOURNED

18:38:41 [Zakim]

-Guus

18:38:42 [Zakim]

-John_Stanton

18:39:40 [Zakim]

-TimF

18:42:30 [hth]

hth has left #webont

18:44:45 [Zakim]

-M_Smith

18:44:46 [Zakim]

-JimH

18:44:47 [Zakim]

-FrankvH

18:44:47 [Zakim]

-HermanT

18:44:48 [Zakim]

-Ziv

18:44:51 [Zakim]

-PeterPS

18:44:52 [Zakim]

-MikeD

18:44:53 [Zakim]

-Marwan

18:44:55 [Zakim]

-Masahiro

18:44:56 [Zakim]

-Ian_Horrocks

18:44:59 [Zakim]

-JeffH

18:45:10 [Zakim]

-DebM

18:45:11 [Zakim]

SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended

18:48:55 [jhendler]

zakim, goodbye

18:48:56 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'goodbye', jhendler

18:49:50 [jhendler]

zakim, bye

18:49:51 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #webont

18:50:01 [jhendler]

RRSAgent, bye

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items:

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JimH to add f2f agenda link to the Web Ont home page [1]

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T17-14-32

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JimH to write up a proposed closure to this issue to be finalized at f2f and added to documents [2]

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T17-30-17

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Peter and Mike S. to work out how to do table and cross-reference in Guide for Semantics [3]

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T18-22-19

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Guus to create a simple example of class as instance for the Guide [4]

18:50:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/01/02-webont-irc#T18-29-28