Minutes WS Choreography WG conference call 26 April 2005
IRC log: logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/26-ws-chor-irc
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/att-0038/Agenda-04262005-1.txt
1. Role Call:
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Tony Fletcher (Choreology), Steve Ross-Talbot (Co-Chair Pi4Tech), Gary Brown (Pi4Tech), Greg Ritzinger (Novell), Martin Chapman (Co-Chair - Oracle), Nickolas Kavantzas (Oracle), Yves Lafon (W3C staff).
REGRETS: Abbie Barbir (Nortel), Monica Martin (Sun), Charlton Barreto (webMethods).
2. Scribe:
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Tony Fletcher
3. Agenda Changes:
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None
4. Approve minutes
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19th April:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Apr/att-0012/MeetingMinutes20050419-1.txt
5. Action item review
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1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
IN PROGRESS
2. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
IN PROGRESS
3. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
IN PROGRESS
4. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued logic and existential qualifiers
IN PROGRESS
5. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128. SRT to investigate
IN PROGRESS
6. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
IN PROGRESS
7. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
STANDING ITEM - Martin will start to close issues this week.
8. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092 Anders to
take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal.
IN PROGRESS
9. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
IN PROGRESS
10. ACTION: Yves to define what is meant by correctness
IN PROGRESS
11. ACTION: SRT to close issue 1002 and take action to add 1002-addressing
IN PROGRESS
Steve will try to move on some of his actions by next meeting.
12. ACTION: Charlton, Gary and Nick to discuss 1008 off line to resolve (leaving 1008 on the agenda)
IN PROGRESS
13. ACTION: Editors: Role should be roleType in this example.
This action was addressed during the meeting and it is now possible to mark this action as DONE!
Refer to: Message 28 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0028.html
Correct the namespace prefixes rns: to tns: in the sample in section 2.3.3? After some debates
it was agreed to leave as rns: as it was for the interface rather than the Choreography package.
Clarify somewhere that rns: is a namespace prefix used for the import from WSDL files.
NEW ACTION: Tony to add rns: to the namespace prefix table in the WS-Choreography specification.
Message 29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0029.html and Issue 1109
After some discussion it was agreed to keep the role[Type] attribute to resolve ambiguity when
the role context is not clear, which Nick pointed out could be the case in a work unit. Gary
made the point that you could use a globalisedTrigger for this, which may be true but it was
agreed that this was a separate issue requiring a separate proposal though it might be a
simplification.
Message 30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0030.html
On discussion we agreed to change all role to have the suffix Type. In perform make roleType
and make the same change for assign and noAction.
NEW ACTION: Tony to add rns: to the namespace prefix table in the WS-Choreography specification.
Message 33 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0033.html
The meeting agreed with this message that we should make no change.
14. ACTION: Close 971 as Resolved, won't fix
IN PROGRESS.
15. ACTION: Record 996 as resolved fixed with text in minutes (12 apr)
IN PROGRESS
16. ACTION: Record 998 as resolved won't fix
IN PROGRESS
17. ACTION: Record 1018 as resolved fixed
IN PROGRESS
18. ACTION: Tony to draft conformance section
IN PROGRESS
19. ACTION: Record 1055 as RESOLVED LATER so is editorial
IN PROGRESS
20. ACTION: Record 1079 as CLOSE WON'T FIX
IN PROGRESS
14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20 Martin said that he will do all these this week all being well
so currently marked as in progress.
21. ACTION: Tony Fletcher - Verify actions of action 13 above are complete for specification.
DONE see above.
22. ACTION: SRT - Put in text related to access and modify in the primer.
IN PROGRESS
23. ACTION: SRT - Insert 1028 text provided by GBrown into Issue 1128.
IN PROGRESS
24. ACTION: MC - Close 1110 with the proposed resolution.
IN PROGRESS
6. Proposals
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1102
Summary: Combine Finalizer blocks etc. in their corresponding workunits
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Feb/att-0000/comment.txt
PROPOSAL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/0032.html
Restriction can be lifted.
Issue 1102 Combine Finalizer blocks etc. in their corresponding workunits
It was agreed that the activity inside a finalizer does not have to be a work unit.
Therefore the syntax should be changed from work unit notation to activity notation.
This change was agreed.
NEW ACTION: Martin to record issue 1102 as resolved/later.
7. Issues requiring clarification
---------------------------------
Summary of progress from last week:
Issues still to resolve:
1008 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1008
Summary: FAULT HANDLING
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0012.html
GB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Feb/0035.html
REMAIN OPEN
This was left open until Charlton returns or the group reaches the cut off point.
1003 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1003
Summary: RELINGUISHING CONTROL OF PASSED OUTPUT CHANNELS
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0007.html
ADDITIONAL URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/0009.html
REMAINS OPEN
This was left open until pending further work from Kohei Honda et al or the group reaches the cut off point.
`
1128 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1128
Summary: Accessing and modifying members of lists and arrays
URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-ws-cdl-10-20041217/
GB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0013.html
Issue 1128 Accessing and modifying members of lists and arrays
Steve reported that Paul Downey from BT, a member of the Web Service Description group,
has been given an action to write a W3C note on lists and arrays. He therefore thought
it was correct to punt on this topic for present. Steve suggested closing this issue as
there are workarounds and said that he would put notes in the primer as to how to tackle
at the present time and to take note of other groups that are working on this problem.
NEW ACTION: Steve to close 1128 as resolved will not fix, but add text to the primer about
the use of lists and arrays in CDL.
1001 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1001
Summary: CORRELATION OF CHANNEL INSTANCES
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0006.html
LATEST: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/0036.html
Issue 1001 Correlation of Channel Instances
Steve said that the original issue was about:
1) CDL requires a single identity across channel instances of the same type so that today
you cannot disambiguate them.
2) If there are two channels with different identifiers then how do you correlate them?
So he concluded that you needed some mechanism for correlating messages on two different
channels.
The proposal from Steve and Gary proposes primary, alternate and derived keys for this
correlation and also an association for backward references. The proposal solves both of
the two original issues. The issue of a choreography identifier is orthogonal.
Nick said that his point is: what are the use cases? Correlating channels solves some
particular problems. Nick said that he had sent a mail after the last call giving two use
cases and agreed that CDL should support both. Nick agrees that the proposal can solve his
use cases but thinks you can already do this in CDL. Steve said that in his use case the
identifiers on messages into a role will be different from those it outputs. Also may need
to use two channels into a role. The key identifies a logical set of messages with some
ordering. Nick says that we already have choreographies and choreography instances and
conversations. Nick and Martin asked how do you scope these keys - how do you delineate the
beginning and end?
Gary said that he was not interested in a session identifier, but in using the key in their
proposal to state the relationship.
Nick emphasised the need to be able to designate the beginning and end of choreography
instances, but said that we cannot do that today. Nick would like to use this proposal to
solve this issue as well. Steve said in that case Nick needed to make a proposal for that
case. Nick replied that he had already done that. He had sent an e-mail which did amend
Steve and Gary's proposal in a manner that solved this other issue as well.
However, Gary said that he was not happy with the amendment as he thinks it is unnecessary
and something else to explain. It will confuse readers and implementers.
Martin agreed that the inability to distinguish the beginning and end of a choreography
instance was a separate but real issue. He suggested that we try to agree the basics in
e-mail before the next meeting.
*** THE WG AGREED to separate the issues and that Gary/Steve should resumbit detailed proposal
to address the immediate issues that are logged in 1001.
*** It was also AGREED BY THE WG that the wider issue raised by Nick would be dealt with
separately and should be raised as an issue by Nick or others if this is felt to be an
issue worthy of further consideration.
Other issues:
Why do we have so many places in which we declare relationships and roles?
e.g. "participate relationhip", "channel types"
8. AOB
-------
Martin said that he would like a volunteer to read and raise issues against the WS-Addressing
last call document. No one on the call volunteered for this task at the time.
Tony mentioned that the editing team were now short of work to do and suggested that Martin
and or Steve should run a check on the Bugzilla issue list and send an e-mail to the editing
group giving the complete list of issues that the Editors we should be tackling so that the
Editors can check that list against the issue numbers we have actually tackled so far.
Martin said that we needed to look for editorials, resolved later and resolved fixed issues.
NEW ACTION: Steve and/or Martin to generate a list of the issue numbers that the editing team
should be working on as a spot check.
There was no further business raised and the meeting was overtime so it was adjourned.
9. Next meetings
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Teleconferences are normally held every Tuesday at 20:00 UTC next one 3rd May 2005.
Next face-to-face meeting to be early June 05
(Thursday and Friday 9-10 June 05, or Monday Tuesday and Wednesday 13-15 June 05)
in London (hosted by Sun) to wrap up on specification, primer and any other matters.
SUMMARY OF ACTIONS
------------------
1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
IN PROGRESS
2. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
IN PROGRESS
3. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
IN PROGRESS
4. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued logic and existential qualifiers
IN PROGRESS
5. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128. SRT to investigate
IN PROGRESS
6. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
IN PROGRESS
7. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
STANDING ITEM - Martin will start to close issues this week.
8. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092 Anders to
take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal.
IN PROGRESS
9. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
IN PROGRESS
10. ACTION: Yves to define what is meant by correctness
IN PROGRESS
11. ACTION: SRT to close issue 1002 and take action to add 1002-addressing
IN PROGRESS
Steve will try to move on some of his actions by next meeting.
12. ACTION: Charlton, Gary and Nick to discuss 1008 off line to resolve (leaving 1008 on the agenda)
IN PROGRESS
13. ACTION: Close 971 as Resolved, won't fix
IN PROGRESS.
14. ACTION: Record 996 as resolved fixed with text in minutes (12 apr)
IN PROGRESS
15. ACTION: Record 998 as resolved won't fix
IN PROGRESS
16. ACTION: Record 1018 as resolved fixed
IN PROGRESS
17. ACTION: Tony to draft conformance section
IN PROGRESS
18. ACTION: Record 1055 as RESOLVED LATER so is editorial
IN PROGRESS
19. ACTION: Record 1079 as CLOSE WON'T FIX
IN PROGRESS
20. ACTION: SRT - Put in text related to access and modify in the primer.
IN PROGRESS
21. ACTION: SRT - Insert 1028 text provided by GBrown into Issue 1128.
IN PROGRESS
22. ACTION: MC - Close 1110 with the proposed resolution.
IN PROGRESS
23. NEW ACTION: Martin to record issue 1102 as resolved/later.
24. NEW ACTION: Tony to add rns: to the namespace prefix table in the WS-Choreography specification.
25. NEW ACTION: Steve to close 1128 as resolved will not fix, but add text to the primer about
the use of lists and arrays in CDL.
26. NEW ACTION: Steve and/or Martin to generate a list of the issue numbers that the editing team
should be working on as a spot check.