Minutes WS Choreography WG conference call 19 April 2005

IRC log: logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-ws-chor-irc


Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/att-0001/Agenda-04042005-0.txt

1. Role Call: 
-------------
	Charlton, Martin, Greg, Nick, Tony, Monica, SRT, Yves

2. Scribe: 
----------
	Monica

3. Agenda Changes:
------------------
Nick requested that issue 1001 be discussed to frame the email exchanges in order to resolve the issue. This was added to the agenda.

4. Approve minutes
------------------

	12th April
	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Apr/att-0004/minutes_20050412_-_0.txt
		
	Chapman: 
		1004: close fixed based on structural clarity
		1005: close fixed based on structural clarity
		SRT: We are awaiting proposals.
		Chapman: Confusing. No text said we agree to close.
		GBrown: Propose to close both as above.
		Chapman: Correct minutes, then resolve action.

	MINUTES WERE APPROVED.
	PROPOSAL TO CLOSE ISSUES 1004, 1005 : APPROVED (as shown above).
		SRT: Structural clarity is handled in the primer. 

5. Action item review 
---------------------
	1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
		IN PROGRESS


	2. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
		IN PROGRESS

	3. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
		IN PROGRESS


	4. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued logic and existential qualifiers
		IN PROGRESS

	5. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128. SRT to investigate 
                                   IN PROGRESS

	6. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
		IN PROGRESS
SRT: No change. Standing item.

	7. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
		STANDING ITEM


	8. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092
	  Anders to take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal
		IN PROGRESS
		SRT: Post next week per Barreto.
	
	9. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
		IN PROGRESS

	10. ACTION: Yves to define what is meant by correctness 
		IN PROGRESS

	11. ACTION:  All in the group to respond to public messages for March 05 numbers 28, 29, 30 and 33.
		SRT to re-validate this action
		Issues raised by editors:
		March 05 number 28: 
			RoleType
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0028.html
		March 05 number 29: 
			RoleName
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0029.html
		March 05 number 30: 
			toRole and fromRole
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0030.html
		March 05 number 33: 
			RoleType
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0033.html	
                  DONE

	SRT: These I believe are complete.
	[NEW] ACTION: Tony Fletcher - Verify actions are complete for specification.

	12. ACTION: SRT to close issue 1002 and take action to add 1002-addressing
		IN PROGRESS

	13. ACTION: Charlton, Gary and Nick to discuss 1008 off line to resolve (leaving 1008 on the agenda)
		IN PROGRESS

	14. ACTION: Editors Role should be role type in this example.
	Tony believes this is done - but marked as in progress for now
	IN PROGRESS

	15. ACTION: Editors The corresponding text should refer to role type.
	SRT: Duplicate.
	ACTION ITEM REMOVED

	16. NEW ACTION: Close 971 as Resolved, won't fix
	Chapman: Need to verify. 
	IN PROGRESS.

	17. NEW ACTION: Record 996 as resolved fixed with text in minutes (12 apr)
	Chapman: Need to verify.
	IN PROGRESS

	18. NEW ACTION: Record 998 as resolved won't fix
	Chapman: Need to verify. 
	IN PROGRESS

	19. NEW ACTION Chairs to search previous minutes for proposal on optional roles
	SRT: Issue 1000
	DONE.

	20. NEW ACTION: Record 1018 as resolved fixed
	IN PROGRESS

	21. NEW ACTION: Tony to draft conformance section
	IN PROGRESS

	22 NEW ACTION: Record 1055 as RESOLVED LATER so is editorial
	IN PROGRESS

	23. NEW ACTION: Record 1079 as CLOSE WON'T FIX	IN PROGRESS
	IN PROGRESS

6. Editor issues:
-----------------
	Issues raised by editors:
		March 05 number 28: 
			RoleType
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0028.html
		March 05 number 29: 
			RoleName
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0029.html
		March 05 number 30: 
			toRole and fromRole
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0030.html
		March 05 number 33: 
			RoleType
			http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0033.html		

SRT: See above.

7. Proposals
------------
	1110	http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1110
	Summary: When a copy expression references a variable that has not been set, what should happen?
	URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Feb/0004.html
	PROPOSAL: TO FOLLOW

	See also 1008 below

	SRT: Added one bullet: If this occurs, the result is undefined.
	GBrown: Put statement is section about variables or put explicit statement everywhere variables are used.
	Kavantzas: isVariableAvailable (relates to block = true/false)
	SRT: Create a new proposal that places the statement in the variable section.
	GBrown: What about complete expression?
	Kavantzas: Depends on whether isVariableAvailable defined, then complete proceeds accordingly.
	Have to talk about two exceptions in a new proposal.
	SRT: Proposal is to be rewritten.

8. Issues requiring clarification
---------------------------------
Summary of progress from last week:

Issues still to resolve:
	1008 	http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1008 
	Summary: FAULT HANDLING
	URL: 	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0012.html
	GB: 	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Feb/0035.html
	REMAIN OPEN

	SRT: Barreto will have 26 April 2005. Place higher priority.
	Kavantzas: This is a philosophical issue on fault. We took WSDL v2.0 approach.

	1003	http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1003
        Summary: RELINGUISHING CONTROL OF PASSED OUTPUT CHANNELS
        URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0007.html
	ADDITIONAL URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/0009.html
	REMAINS OPEN	

	SRT: Kohei Honda posted a response.
	Kavantzas: We have data points to make a decision.
	If you start to talk about linearity, more work is needed. Otherwise, we are OK.
	If usage=unlimited, relinquishing control is undefined. If only one, need to be more specific with linearity.
	Still somewhat ambiguous. 
	GBrown: Do we need more info to make model checking easier?
	Kavantzas: If we want more clarity, we need to be precise with what only once is.
	SRT: Delay to next week.

	1128	http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1128
	Summary: Accessing and modifying members of lists and arrays
	URL:	http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-ws-cdl-10-20041217/	
	GB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0013.html
	REMAIN OPEN

	GBrown: Proposal-
 	To properly modify information (lists/arrays/xml documents) in concurrent threads requires a level of
	isolation/synchronization, and CDL only provides a coarse mechanism for this - so would prefer to leave these
 	modifications for silentActions, which can then implement any necessary synchronization.

	Lacking specificity in CDL to handle this concurrency issue.
	Kavantzas: Concurrency is orthogonal to lists and array.
	SRT/GBrown: Close and handle into silentAction.
	Kavantzas: We don't have visibility to it then.
	SRT: Do we address and change our strategy to become almost an executable language.
	Kavantzas: We have access and modify parts. Access works as we have today. We will not do modify in current CDL.
	GBrown: Proposal is to no action because concurrency issue is too complex. Work around is available for lists and arrays, through silentAction.
	Chapman: Put in text related to access in the primer.
	REJECT Fletcher PROPOSAL; CLOSE NO ACTION.

	[NEW] ACTION: SRT - Put in text related to access and modify in the primer.
	[NEW] ACTION: SRT - Insert 1028 text provided by GBrown into Issue 1128.

Issue 1110
	SRT: Add a bullet -
	"If a variable is not available and is referenced, except in a blocking workunit or in the CDL function isVariableAvailable, the result is undefined."
	PROPOSAL APPROVED

	[NEW] ACTION: MC - Close 1110 with the proposed resolution.

Issue 1001
Channel instances
	Kavantzas: Decided in previous F2F, bring back after last call issues. We have two proposals: one discusses session
and choreography instances, and the other does not. why were sessions deleted?
	GBrown: We were interested in associating a channel instance to the session it is in.
	Kavantzas: Idea leans toward choreography instance. Can associate channel instances but what does it mean?
	What is a session then?
	GBrown: The proposals are the same.
	Kavantzas: The English reads differently. I am confused by 1001 about associating channels in a choreography instance.
	This is different than conversation.
	GBrown: Discuss on email. Need your definition of choreography instance and conversation.
	Kavantzas: We have choreography identifier.
	SRT: How do you relate that to other identities of the related interactions and channels?

Other issues:
	Why do we have so many places in which we declare relationships and roles?
	e.g. "participate relationhip", "channel types"

8. AOB
-------
Chapman: F2F details posted today.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Apr/0007.html

SUMMARY OF OUTSTANDING ACTION
-----------------------------

	1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
	IN PROGRESS

	2. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
	IN PROGRESS

	3. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
	IN PROGRESS

	4. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued logic and existential qualifiers
	IN PROGRESS

	5. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128. SRT to investigate 
      	IN PROGRESS

	6. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
	IN PROGRESS
	SRT: No change. Standing item.

	7. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
	STANDING ITEM

	8. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092
	  Anders to take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal
	IN PROGRESS
		SRT: Post next week per Barreto.
	
	9. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
	IN PROGRESS

	10. ACTION: Yves to define what is meant by correctness 
	IN PROGRESS

	11. ACTION: SRT to close issue 1002 and take action to add 1002-addressing
	IN PROGRESS

	12. ACTION: Charlton, Gary and Nick to discuss 1008 off line to resolve (leaving 1008 on the agenda)
	IN PROGRESS

	13. ACTION: Editors Role should be role type in this example.
	Tony believes this is done - but marked as in progress for now
	IN PROGRESS

	14. NEW ACTION: Close 971 as Resolved, won't fix
	Chapman: Need to verify. 
	IN PROGRESS.

	15. NEW ACTION: Record 996 as resolved fixed with text in minutes (12 apr)
	Chapman: Need to verify.
	IN PROGRESS

	16. NEW ACTION: Record 998 as resolved won't fix
	Chapman: Need to verify. 
	IN PROGRESS

	17. NEW ACTION: Record 1018 as resolved fixed
	IN PROGRESS

	18. NEW ACTION: Tony to draft conformance section
	IN PROGRESS

	19. NEW ACTION: Record 1055 as RESOLVED LATER so is editorial
	IN PROGRESS

	20. NEW ACTION: Record 1079 as CLOSE WON'T FIX	IN PROGRESS
	IN PROGRESS

	21. [NEW] ACTION: Tony Fletcher - Verify actions are complete for specification.
	22. [NEW] ACTION: SRT - Put in text related to access and modify in the primer.
	23. [NEW] ACTION: SRT - Insert 1028 text provided by GBrown into Issue 1128.
	24. [NEW] ACTION: MC - Close 1110 with the proposed resolution.