Minutes WS Choreography WG conference call 19 April 2005
IRC log: logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-ws-chor-irc
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/att-0001/Agenda-04042005-0.txt
1. Role Call:
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Charlton, Martin, Greg, Nick, Tony, Monica, SRT, Yves
2. Scribe:
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Monica
3. Agenda Changes:
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Nick requested that issue 1001 be discussed to frame the email exchanges in order to resolve the issue. This was added to the agenda.
4. Approve minutes
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12th April
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Apr/att-0004/minutes_20050412_-_0.txt
Chapman:
1004: close fixed based on structural clarity
1005: close fixed based on structural clarity
SRT: We are awaiting proposals.
Chapman: Confusing. No text said we agree to close.
GBrown: Propose to close both as above.
Chapman: Correct minutes, then resolve action.
MINUTES WERE APPROVED.
PROPOSAL TO CLOSE ISSUES 1004, 1005 : APPROVED (as shown above).
SRT: Structural clarity is handled in the primer.
5. Action item review
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1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
IN PROGRESS
2. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
IN PROGRESS
3. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
IN PROGRESS
4. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued logic and existential qualifiers
IN PROGRESS
5. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128. SRT to investigate
IN PROGRESS
6. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
IN PROGRESS
SRT: No change. Standing item.
7. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
STANDING ITEM
8. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092
Anders to take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal
IN PROGRESS
SRT: Post next week per Barreto.
9. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
IN PROGRESS
10. ACTION: Yves to define what is meant by correctness
IN PROGRESS
11. ACTION: All in the group to respond to public messages for March 05 numbers 28, 29, 30 and 33.
SRT to re-validate this action
Issues raised by editors:
March 05 number 28:
RoleType
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0028.html
March 05 number 29:
RoleName
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0029.html
March 05 number 30:
toRole and fromRole
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0030.html
March 05 number 33:
RoleType
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0033.html
DONE
SRT: These I believe are complete.
[NEW] ACTION: Tony Fletcher - Verify actions are complete for specification.
12. ACTION: SRT to close issue 1002 and take action to add 1002-addressing
IN PROGRESS
13. ACTION: Charlton, Gary and Nick to discuss 1008 off line to resolve (leaving 1008 on the agenda)
IN PROGRESS
14. ACTION: Editors Role should be role type in this example.
Tony believes this is done - but marked as in progress for now
IN PROGRESS
15. ACTION: Editors The corresponding text should refer to role type.
SRT: Duplicate.
ACTION ITEM REMOVED
16. NEW ACTION: Close 971 as Resolved, won't fix
Chapman: Need to verify.
IN PROGRESS.
17. NEW ACTION: Record 996 as resolved fixed with text in minutes (12 apr)
Chapman: Need to verify.
IN PROGRESS
18. NEW ACTION: Record 998 as resolved won't fix
Chapman: Need to verify.
IN PROGRESS
19. NEW ACTION Chairs to search previous minutes for proposal on optional roles
SRT: Issue 1000
DONE.
20. NEW ACTION: Record 1018 as resolved fixed
IN PROGRESS
21. NEW ACTION: Tony to draft conformance section
IN PROGRESS
22 NEW ACTION: Record 1055 as RESOLVED LATER so is editorial
IN PROGRESS
23. NEW ACTION: Record 1079 as CLOSE WON'T FIX IN PROGRESS
IN PROGRESS
6. Editor issues:
-----------------
Issues raised by editors:
March 05 number 28:
RoleType
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0028.html
March 05 number 29:
RoleName
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0029.html
March 05 number 30:
toRole and fromRole
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0030.html
March 05 number 33:
RoleType
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0033.html
SRT: See above.
7. Proposals
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1110 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1110
Summary: When a copy expression references a variable that has not been set, what should happen?
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Feb/0004.html
PROPOSAL: TO FOLLOW
See also 1008 below
SRT: Added one bullet: If this occurs, the result is undefined.
GBrown: Put statement is section about variables or put explicit statement everywhere variables are used.
Kavantzas: isVariableAvailable (relates to block = true/false)
SRT: Create a new proposal that places the statement in the variable section.
GBrown: What about complete expression?
Kavantzas: Depends on whether isVariableAvailable defined, then complete proceeds accordingly.
Have to talk about two exceptions in a new proposal.
SRT: Proposal is to be rewritten.
8. Issues requiring clarification
---------------------------------
Summary of progress from last week:
Issues still to resolve:
1008 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1008
Summary: FAULT HANDLING
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0012.html
GB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Feb/0035.html
REMAIN OPEN
SRT: Barreto will have 26 April 2005. Place higher priority.
Kavantzas: This is a philosophical issue on fault. We took WSDL v2.0 approach.
1003 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1003
Summary: RELINGUISHING CONTROL OF PASSED OUTPUT CHANNELS
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0007.html
ADDITIONAL URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Apr/0009.html
REMAINS OPEN
SRT: Kohei Honda posted a response.
Kavantzas: We have data points to make a decision.
If you start to talk about linearity, more work is needed. Otherwise, we are OK.
If usage=unlimited, relinquishing control is undefined. If only one, need to be more specific with linearity.
Still somewhat ambiguous.
GBrown: Do we need more info to make model checking easier?
Kavantzas: If we want more clarity, we need to be precise with what only once is.
SRT: Delay to next week.
1128 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1128
Summary: Accessing and modifying members of lists and arrays
URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-ws-cdl-10-20041217/
GB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0013.html
REMAIN OPEN
GBrown: Proposal-
To properly modify information (lists/arrays/xml documents) in concurrent threads requires a level of
isolation/synchronization, and CDL only provides a coarse mechanism for this - so would prefer to leave these
modifications for silentActions, which can then implement any necessary synchronization.
Lacking specificity in CDL to handle this concurrency issue.
Kavantzas: Concurrency is orthogonal to lists and array.
SRT/GBrown: Close and handle into silentAction.
Kavantzas: We don't have visibility to it then.
SRT: Do we address and change our strategy to become almost an executable language.
Kavantzas: We have access and modify parts. Access works as we have today. We will not do modify in current CDL.
GBrown: Proposal is to no action because concurrency issue is too complex. Work around is available for lists and arrays, through silentAction.
Chapman: Put in text related to access in the primer.
REJECT Fletcher PROPOSAL; CLOSE NO ACTION.
[NEW] ACTION: SRT - Put in text related to access and modify in the primer.
[NEW] ACTION: SRT - Insert 1028 text provided by GBrown into Issue 1128.
Issue 1110
SRT: Add a bullet -
"If a variable is not available and is referenced, except in a blocking workunit or in the CDL function isVariableAvailable, the result is undefined."
PROPOSAL APPROVED
[NEW] ACTION: MC - Close 1110 with the proposed resolution.
Issue 1001
Channel instances
Kavantzas: Decided in previous F2F, bring back after last call issues. We have two proposals: one discusses session
and choreography instances, and the other does not. why were sessions deleted?
GBrown: We were interested in associating a channel instance to the session it is in.
Kavantzas: Idea leans toward choreography instance. Can associate channel instances but what does it mean?
What is a session then?
GBrown: The proposals are the same.
Kavantzas: The English reads differently. I am confused by 1001 about associating channels in a choreography instance.
This is different than conversation.
GBrown: Discuss on email. Need your definition of choreography instance and conversation.
Kavantzas: We have choreography identifier.
SRT: How do you relate that to other identities of the related interactions and channels?
Other issues:
Why do we have so many places in which we declare relationships and roles?
e.g. "participate relationhip", "channel types"
8. AOB
-------
Chapman: F2F details posted today.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Apr/0007.html
SUMMARY OF OUTSTANDING ACTION
-----------------------------
1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
IN PROGRESS
2. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
IN PROGRESS
3. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
IN PROGRESS
4. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued logic and existential qualifiers
IN PROGRESS
5. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128. SRT to investigate
IN PROGRESS
6. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
IN PROGRESS
SRT: No change. Standing item.
7. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
STANDING ITEM
8. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092
Anders to take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal
IN PROGRESS
SRT: Post next week per Barreto.
9. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
IN PROGRESS
10. ACTION: Yves to define what is meant by correctness
IN PROGRESS
11. ACTION: SRT to close issue 1002 and take action to add 1002-addressing
IN PROGRESS
12. ACTION: Charlton, Gary and Nick to discuss 1008 off line to resolve (leaving 1008 on the agenda)
IN PROGRESS
13. ACTION: Editors Role should be role type in this example.
Tony believes this is done - but marked as in progress for now
IN PROGRESS
14. NEW ACTION: Close 971 as Resolved, won't fix
Chapman: Need to verify.
IN PROGRESS.
15. NEW ACTION: Record 996 as resolved fixed with text in minutes (12 apr)
Chapman: Need to verify.
IN PROGRESS
16. NEW ACTION: Record 998 as resolved won't fix
Chapman: Need to verify.
IN PROGRESS
17. NEW ACTION: Record 1018 as resolved fixed
IN PROGRESS
18. NEW ACTION: Tony to draft conformance section
IN PROGRESS
19. NEW ACTION: Record 1055 as RESOLVED LATER so is editorial
IN PROGRESS
20. NEW ACTION: Record 1079 as CLOSE WON'T FIX IN PROGRESS
IN PROGRESS
21. [NEW] ACTION: Tony Fletcher - Verify actions are complete for specification.
22. [NEW] ACTION: SRT - Put in text related to access and modify in the primer.
23. [NEW] ACTION: SRT - Insert 1028 text provided by GBrown into Issue 1128.
24. [NEW] ACTION: MC - Close 1110 with the proposed resolution.