Minutes WS Choreography WG conference call 22 March 2005
Roll Call:
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Tony Fletcher (Choreology), Steve Ross-Talbot (Co-Chair - Enigmatec),
Gary Brown (Enigmatec), Greg Ritzinger (Novell), Abbie Barbir (Nortel),
Martin Chapman (Co-Chair - Oracle), Nickolas Kavantzas (Oracle),
Monica Martin (Sun), Anders Tell (UN/CEFACT TMG vice-chair, Toolsmiths, Sweden),
Charlton Barreto (webMethods), Yves Lafon (W3C staff).
Admin:
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irc log at http://www.w3.org/2005/03/22-ws-chor-irc
Scribe: Tony agreed to scribe.
Steve confirmed that the next face-to-face meeting will be held at the Sun facilities in London, UK
Agenga:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0041/Agenda-03222005-0.txt
The agenda was accepted.
Minutes:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0005/MeetingMinutes20050315-0.txt
The meeting approved the minutes of the teleconference held 15th March 2005.
Actions:
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1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
IN PROGRESS
2. ACTION on Gary to follow-up with issuer Kohei on issue 1101
Kohei has e-mailed the group - now chairs to schedule time on the next agenda to discuss issue 1101.
DONE
3. ACTION on Gary to follow-up with issuer (Kohei) on issue 1102
Kohei has e-mailed the group - issue 1102 is on today's agenda and needs to be carried forward if not tackled today.
DONE
4. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
IN PROGRESS
5. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
IN PROGRESS
6. ACTION: Charlton will sanity check issue pertaining to issue 1008 and WSDL bindings (faults)
DONE, agenda for today - see below.
7. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued logic and existential qualifiers.
Steve and Martin have been given direction by the Coordination Group, but there is more to do so
IN PROGRESS
8. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128.
SRT to investigate - IN PROGRESS
9. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
IN PROGRESS
10. ACTION: Editors to develop schedule to verify whether they can produce doc by end of May.
Looks OK for completion in May for the currently identified editorial items.
DONE
11. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
STANDING ITEM
12. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092. Anders to take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal.
Related to primer a draft of which was sent out Sunday 19th March 2005 but mark this as
IN PROGRESS
13. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
IN PROGRESS
14. ACTION: Yves will sort out a list of normative references [1]
IN PROGRESS
15. ACTION: define what is meant by correctness - see above [2]
IN PROGRESS - ASSIGNED TO Yves
16. ACTION: Yves to define the MIME type [3]
IN PROGRESS
17. ACTION: Charlton to talk to submitter to provide clarity of issue [4]
Charlton said he understood this action to refer to action 4 in face-to-face minutes and fault handling in WSD L 1.1 refer to issue 1008
DONE
18. ACTION: SRT to put Kohei's email on agenda
IN PROGRESS
19. ACTION: Steve will provide Charlton and Monica with example by end of week.
The draft primer mentioned in action 12 above has a full example, which Steve has now communicated via the list to Monica and Charlton
DONE
20. ACTION: Towards the end of the face-to-face a question was raised regarding the need to provide clarity on Channel passing. Kohei has sent an e-mail and now folk need to respond to that. Put on agenda - in progress.
21. ACTION: All in the group to respond to public messages for March 05 numbers 28, 29, 30 and 33.
Issues Discussion:
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Remaining priority 3 issues
(Nick raised the point of giving priority in agenda scheduling to queries raised in the editing group back to the main group. Steve and Martin agreed with this in principle and will organise future agendas around such requests, but for this meeting decided to stick to the agenda of tackling the remaining P3 issues first.
1006 Record Reference (in Interaction) Restriction
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1006
Gary: if there is an assumption that time-out always causes an exception then only need one entry in this list, but what if set state sometimes and then continue - then you need a list of names.
Nick agreed that this was the case for causeException = "false" but not for causeException = "true".
Gary: I agree that if you have a list than only 1 can cause an exception.
Nick: after time-out expires then have to figure out what to do, which seems strange and would not be observable. Time-out should be deterministic. Have just one record reference for time-out. Gary thinks this is low priority, but still a restriction if not going to throw an exception. It was agreed it was a balance between making CDL harder to use and making it more general. Gary suggested having a rule so that only one which caused an exception was allowed, but several that do not cause exception. Now need a concrete proposal.
On re-reading the current specification Nick said that the new version of the specification does in fact already have a list of NCnames at this point. Gary then agreed that this issue had actually already been fixed to his satisfaction and that we could close this issue with no change to the current specification.
1023 Question on constraint - Section 2.3.3, 3rd paragraph, last sentence
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1023
On examination it was discovered that we have already discussed this issue and there is a clear resolution in Bugzilla. So this issue is now assigned to the editors.
1074 Language Extensibility and Binding - suggested change to an Extensions rule
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1074
It was noted that this issue is related to 973.
The comment is from Anders. Martin suggested saying that extensions must not 'contradict' the semantics (rather than not 'extend'). Anders agreed with the use of the word 'contradict'. It was therefore agreed to resolve 973 and 1074 in the same way and use the 973 suggested text. Close both issues as fixed.
Monica pointed out that this agreement also addressed one question of issue 1066 which she had raised.
1075 Channel Types - attribute "usage" should be made an Element
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1075
Change 'usage' from an attribute to an element so that one could add attributes to it in the future or indeed further child elements. Nick asked if then 'action' should also be an element?
Maybe make 'usage' and 'action' elements under 'channelType' and under 'passing' make 'action' and 'new' into elements.
Anders agreed to provide a text change proposal. The direction is now agreed but the issue is left open pending a detailed proposal.
1166 Handling an arbitrary number of concurrent flows
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1166
Martin commented that this issue were similar to the concurrent thread and join issues in BPEL. Nick pointed out that CDL is a bit different as it already has a complete condition. Gary would prefer to have a further e-mail discussion on details before or as he does a concrete proposal.
Nick wanted to emphasise that perform is not like a call, it is more like an include macro. Gary said this is more like the parallel construct we already have but allowing an arbitrary number of activities to run in parallel rather than a fixed number as at present. Have a complete condition operating on a shared state or a silent action to define the join (and ending) condition. Nick pointed out this was not so simple - you do need an array and have the parallel sub choreographies update the array elements, or some such.
Martin suggested that Gary make a more concrete proposal (not necessarily complete first time around).
Nick asked for a use case and Steve and Tony replied that this was already given by the Barros use case and the TWIST use case in the Requirements document.
Any Other Business:
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Finally started to discuss some of the issues raised by the editing group.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0028.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0029.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0030.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0033.html
Tony said that one major issue that had come out was around types of things and things since themselves such as the use of roleType and the use of role (see messages 30 and 33). Martin said that we should make the agreed changes and raise an issue for any knock-on effects and inconsistencies that we saw such as the use of role elsewhere in the text.
NEW ACTION: All in the group to respond to public messages for March 05 numbers 28, 29, 30 and 33.
There was no further business raised and the meeting was overtime so it was adjourned.
Next meetings
Teleconferences are normally held every Tuesday at 20:00 UTC - next one 29th March 2005.
Planning for around four face-to-face meetings a year, maybe less in 2005. Next to be early June 05 (Thursday and Friday 9-10 June 05, or Monday Tuesday and Wednesday 13-15 June 05) in London (hosted by Sun) to wrap up on specification, primer and any other matters.
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