Minutes WS Choreography WG conference call 15 March 2005
IRC log: logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-ws-chor-irc
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0016/Agenda-03152005-0.txt
1. Role Call:
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Nick, Charlton, Gary, Tony, Monica, Greg, Jeff, Yves, Steve, Martin
2. Scribe:
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Greg
4. Approval of minutes:
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8th March Minutes
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0003/MeetingMinutes20050308-0.txt
APPROVED
F2F Minutes
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2005Mar/att-0001/Ws_Chor_f2f__Feb-Mar_2005_-0.txt
APPROVED
5. Action item review:
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1. ACTION: Martin to do UML diagram from scratch for CDL
IN PROGRESS
2. ACTION on Gary to follow-up with issuer Kohei on issue 1101
Gary has followed up and not heard from Koehi just yet -
IN PROGRESS
3. ACTION on Gary to follow-up with issuer (Kohei) on issue 1102
Gary has followed up and not heard from Koehi just yet
IN PROGRESS
4. ACTION: Chairs (after previous action and/or in parallel) Check extra
resourcing from the WG
DONE
5. ACTION: SRT Check 1027 for issues pertaining to identity
IN PROGRESS
6. ACTION: Add text in primer or spec to clarify participant relationship/role pertaining to issue 1027
IN PROGRESS
7. ACTION: Charlton will sanity check issue pertaining to issue 1008 and WSDL bindings (faults)
IN PROGRESS, findingd sent to list
8. ACTION: Log an issue for Nick/Martin to explore relaxing the requirement for using XPath
as the sole expression language.
REMOVED
9. ACTION: Chairs to talk with the XPath 2.0 WG to determine the direction of three-valued
logic and existential qualifiers
IN PROGRESS
10. ACTION: SRT to create a new issue about accessory pertaining to issue 1128.
SRT to investigate - IN PROGRESS
11. ACTION: SRT to rewrite the exit criteria.
IN PROGRESS
12. ACTION: Editors to develop schedule to verify whether they can produce doc by end of May.
IN PROGRESS
13. ACTION: chairs to respond to issue raiser for closed issues
STANDING ITEM
14. ACTION: Steve to ask Anders and Monica to address issue pertaining to 1092
Anders to take Charlton's text to meeting and to return with proposal
IN PROGRESS, Charlton submitted proposed change text to list
15. ACTION: Steve to learn about this issue from Nick for the Primer (issue 1079)
IN PROGRESS
16. ACTION: Steve to put together text related to issue 1079 and send to Ander's for approval
REMOVED
17. ACTION: Yves will sort out a list of normative references [1]
IN PROGRESS
18. ACTION: define what is meant by correctness - see above [2]
ASSIGNED TO Yves
19. ACTION: Yves to define the MIME type [3]
IN PROGRESS
20. ACTION: Charlton to talk to submitter to provide clarity of isue [4]
IN PROGRESS
21. ACTION: WG needs to review email from Kohei: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Mar/0005.html Chairs to put on agenda to discuss further
DONE
6. Issues requiring discussion
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These are from Greg R:
1018 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1018
Summary: Information model - Section 2.3.2, 2nd last paragraph
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0022.html
Status: Editorial issue 1020 depends on its resolution
Bug 1018 discussion
MChapman: change:
role type="qname" behavior="list of ncname"? />
MChapman: to:
roleType type="qname" behavior="list of ncname"? />
PROPOSAL ADOPTED
1035 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1035
Summary: Point of clarity - Section 2.5.2.3, 11th paragraph, 3rd bullet
URL: http://http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0022.html
NOTE:
has to have just a simple sentence pointing back to 2.4.2; not
more otherwise we have to drag the whole paragraph from 2.4.2 that
talks about vars + roles.
Recommendation:
Either close/not a bug or add:
Suggested text: "a variable is associated with a specific role as described
in section 2.4.2"
Bug 1035 discussion
Monica: referencing back is OK
Suggested text:
a variable is associated with a specific role as described in section 2.4.2
PROPOSAL ADOPTED
998 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=998
Summary: State that sequential lexically ordering is the default for interpretation of CDL
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0001.html
Bug 998 discussion:
Tony: solution is to state default "up front".
Nick: why do you want to prescribe order of parsing?
Tony: if you have no ordering construct I assume the order that they are written.
Steve: if we do this, does this mean that we have semantics correctly defined in order to "avoid
doubt".
Tony: Make lexical order explicit.
Steve: what is the problem of putting this in the spec?
Martin: not normal practice to state this
Tony; languages like Java must state lexical ordering somewhere
Monica: better to apply this to those specifc sections of the spec.
Martin: +1
charlton: Charlton: +1
m2: Seeking compromise
Greg: +1
ISSUE OPEN, REQUIRING CLARIFACTION FROM ISSUE AUTHOR.
1000 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1000
Summary: CDL 'ROLE' FUNCTIONS
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0004.html
Bug 1000 discussion:
Gary: in some cases thr role attribute causes confusion.
Gary: is the role attr. required?
Gary: time functions have similar problem
Nick: in some cases the context is not enough
Nick: in getVariable() the a role is optional
Nick: role is inferred from the context
Take same text from getVariable() and apply to other functions.
From the spec: The fourth parameter is OPTIONAL. When the fourth parameter is used,
the Variable information MUST be available at the Role specified by roleName.
If this parameter is not used then the Role is inferred from the context that
this function is used.
Applied to RoleName to all functions and making RoleName optional rather than mandatory
Changing "fourth" to the appropriate number for the function.
PROPOSAL ABOVE ACCEPTED.
MARK BUG EDITORIAL
1002 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1002
Summary: RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN RELATIONSHIP TYPES
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0005.html
Bug 1002 discussion.
Steve: disjoint choregroahies
Steve: swimlanes examples
Gary: in chors that share participants, participants are the glue joining discrete chors.
Gary: 1 perform statements in sequence, in ep projection, one participant knows about 1st
perform. 2nd knows about other perform. Neither knows about the sequence.
1 perform statements...
2 perform statements ...
ISSUE OPEN, REQUIRING CLARIFACTION FROM ISSUE AUTHOR.
09:21PM * RRSAgent records action 2
MChapman: i think the actual issue is about a common participant
1006 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1006
Summary: RECORD REFERENCE (in Interaction) RESTRICTION
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0010.html
1023 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1023
Summary: Question on constraint - Section 2.3.3, 3rd paragraph, last sentence
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0022.html
1074 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1074`
Summary: Language Extensibility and Binding - suggested change to an Extensions rule
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0037.html
1075 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1075
Summary: Channel Types - attribute "usage" should be made an Element
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2005Jan/0037.html
1092 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1092
Summary: State relationship between WS-CDL and ebBP
URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2005Jan/0034.html
Bug 1092 discussion:
charlton: "Relationship with the ebXML Business Process framework
charlton: The ebXML Business Process Specification Schema technical specification, the product of ongoing work contributed by OASIS and UN/CEFACT, defines a standardized language by which business systems may be configured to support execution of business collaborations. Such business collaborations consist of business transactions, which are implemented through semantics defined in one of several standard, extensible or trading partner-specific business transa
charlton: ction patterns. These patterns specify the business message exchange (requests, responses and business signals) applicable to a given business transaction definition.
charlton: As of ebBP v2.0, defined Business Transaction patterns can be mapped to abstract operations. When preferable, these can be combined with CPPA support of concrete WSDL to allow the mapping of business transaction activities and well-defined transaction patterns to WSDL abstract operations in disparate environment, while leveraging the reuse of business transactions in collaborations.
charlton: In such cases, CDL and ebBP could be used in a loosely coupled, yet complementary manner, where CDL supports the choreography based on endpoint references related to WSDL, while ebBP specifies the operation mapping to the recognized business transaction patterns. This association is beneficial and useful where complex activities occur in the collaboration environment. "
Zakim: -Abbie_Barbir
monica: ebBp patterns are based on business (scenerios?)
Martin: then we ned to say something like that in the text.
Charlton: Martin, what do you want to seein the text?
Nick: what are we missing?
Charlton: here we are discussing the convergence points.
MChapman: good point srt!
MChapman: +1
Steve: If I give you example from Primer. Want to see how it fits into ebBP.
Steve: Need to be able to explain relationship between ebBP and WS-CDL, confidently.
charlton: one sentence description
abbie: +1 srt
charlton: "CDL and ebBP converge on operation mapping and CPPA support of concrete WSDL"
charlton: (the "how")
Steve will provide charlton an monica with example by end of week.
Charlton: acknowledges request for example and descriptive text.
NEW ACTION: Steve will provide charlton an monica with example by end of week.
7. AOB:
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F2F: Location definitely in the UK
F2F: Definitely June 13-14
F2F: Room has been promised to Steve
F2F: Food/refreshments issue being sorted out
F2F: WG to prepare food & refreshments? :-D
SUMMARY OF ACTIONS:
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NEW ACTION: SRT to put Kohei's email on agenda
NEW ACTION: Steve will provide charlton an monica with example by end of week.