Minutes 31 August 2004 Con Call

Agenda
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2004Aug/att-0022/Agenda08312004_0.txt

Nicks question: Plan for next F2F - agenda planning
Added Nick's item to the agenda

Add item for planning in support of editors towards a working draft

Roll Call
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Martin Chapman
Steve Ross-Talbot
Carine Bournez
Yves Lafon
Anthony Fletcher
David Burdett
Gary Brown
Yoko Seki
Abbie Barbir
Greg Ritzinger
Nickolas Kavantzas
Monica Martin

Scribe
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Monica Martin scribed. Previous scribes: Jeff Mischkinsky, Charlton Barreto, Anthony Fletcher, Greg Ritzinger, Nickolas Kavantzas, David Burdett

Previous Minutes
------------------------

20th July Minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2004Aug/att-0021/Minutes07202004_0.txt

approved.

August 2004 f2f minutes:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2004Aug/att-0007/August_2004_f2f_-_0.txt

SRT - We will review this before accepting

SRT: Did we adopt the working draft?

Chapman: I think we deferred.
SRT: (Note 1) No decision to endorse as a working draft.

Nick - whether we can do an assignment inside the interaction, atomically?

SRT: (Note 2) It is unclear what was resolved. Place note 'See further discussion below.'

People generally write WSDL the first way, not the second

SRT: (Note 3) What are these ways?

Kavantzas: This is way WSDL is used (such as solicit-response).

SRT: Can we make it clear?

SRT: Will correct in minutes.

SRT - m/b good for type system to tell us that a race condition exists

SRT: (Note 4): Is this a requirement?

Martin: Does this put additional conditions on the language?

SRT: A type system can issue warnings such as a race condition that can then be dealt with.

SRT: Do we want to relax?

Kavantzas: Is this a requirement for language, type system or a tool?

SRT: Type system would record its detection and manifested in a tool.

Chapman: Raise as an issue.

NEW ACTION: SRT raise an issue on type system and warnings.

Martin - i propose changing 'free' to 'alias'

SRT: (Note 5) This relates to perform. Was it adopted?

Chapman: Nick raised an issue.

Yoko has joined #ws-chor

Kavantzas: No decision was made.

Fletcher: Place in minutes.

SRT: F2F minutes passed subject to corrections above.

Action Items
-----------------

ACTION: to look at element choreography notation to see how we may be able to roll up transaction features into it. (TF, 0525, 0601, 0615, 0629, 0706, 0713, 0720, 0806)

Transaction features: Fletcher - Not much happened in the meeting. Furniss still analyzing.

SRT: Close action?
Fletcher: Agreed.
SRT: Close action with understanding it could be reopened when Choreology provides a new proposal.
SRT close transaction features action.

Action closed

ACTION: Take the TWIST example we're working on, add part of the flow what can go wrong, see what happens when things go wrong. We can see in front of us the choreography being executed, what we do today with current language, what we can do with transaction. Steve is starting to add exception handling. Nick and Steve have corresponded on "perform" which revealed some errors in the specification to be corrected. (SRT, 0525, 0601, 0615, 0629, 0706, 0713, 0806)

TWIST: SRT - Still pending responses; impacts examples.

IN PROGRESS

ACTION: We need to include an explicit mechanism for describing priority in a choice. (GB, 0713, 0806)

PRIORITY IN A CHOICE: SRT - Proposal submitted at F2F. Close action.

CLOSED

ACTION: Martin to do an UML model (MC, 0806, 0831)
Ongoing, probably better logged as an issue.
NEW ACTION: Chapman log UML model as an issue.

Closed

ACTION: Editors to update perfrom as follows: 1) alias -> bind, 2) rule added to perform: the free variable must have free set to true in its definition, 3) rule added to variable definitions: variables with free set to true are required to be be bound in a perform in before they can be used. (ED, 0806)

Kavantzas - Done.
Kavantzas: Still must be reviewed.

Closed

ACTION: Editors to change last bullet before section 1.4: change "Compatibility with other Specifications", "Specification Composability" (ED, 0806)

EDITORS 1.4 CHANGE: Kavantzas - Done.

Closed

ACTION: Editors change last section in section 1.2 - reverse change in latest editor's draft - change "interoperability and interactions required to ensure conformance between services within one business entity" to ""interoperability and interactions between services within one business entity" (ED, 0806)

EDITORS 1.2 CHANGE: Kavantzas - Done.

Closed

ACTION: SRT to raise MEP extensibility problem with the WS-CG (SRT, 0806, 0831)

CG call next week.
Ongoing

ACTION: We need InputChannelVariable, OutputChannelVariable, FaultChannelVariable; we're looking for volunteers for proposals for this; we will log this as an issue (OPEN, 0806)

SRT - log as an issue?

Closed

NEW ACTION: Ritzinger to log as issue the need for need InputChannelVariable, OutputChannelVariable, FaultChannelVariable.

ACTION: We need proposals for requirements for rules governing endpoint generation both in the absence and presence of WSDL (OPEN, 0806)

SRT - log as an issue.

NEW ACTION: Ritzinger to log as an issue proposals for requirements for rules governing endpoint generation both in the absence and presence of WSDL.

ACTION: Editors to remove text for 2.5.2.1 and clean up spec to remove references to state variables (just call them variables) (ED, 0806)

Kavantzas - Done and must reviewed.

Closed

ACTION: Steve to reissue the challenge to remind the group to respond; SRT will formally reissue it to Jean-Jacques (SRT, 0806)

SRT - Issued to Kavantzas and Dubray.

Closed

ACTION: We agree that we should separate repetitions into a separate construct. We need to sent this back to the authors and explore as a group how to approach this, including expressing conditions on both variables and interactions. (GB, 0806)

Ongoing

ACTION: Charlton to look at impact on our language of supporting BP (WS-I Basic Profile) 1.1, SSBP (Simple SOAP Binding Profile) 1.0, AP (Attachments Profile) 1.0 (CB, 0806, 0831)

SRT: Maybe should switch actions to open issue and then do analysis.
SRT: Logging in Bugzilla is only a record; whether we can do is TBD.
Kavantzas: We can't do WSDL 1.1 if it is not BP based?
Chapman/SRT: Correct - need analysis.

Ongoing

ACTION: Open new issue to investigate the solicit-response and notification in WSDL 1.0 and WDSL 2.0 (OPEN, 0806, 0831)

Ongoing

ACTION: editors to define the specific syntax for a choice on messagecontenttype (ED, 0806)

Done

ACTION: everyone -- discuss on next con call: how far are we from LC "at the 5000 foot level" - i.e. are there major features that we are missing, are there major features that cannot be cut. If so, what are they? (ALL, 0806)

On this agenda.

Done

ACTION: Yves to categorize the issues in bugzilla to add in our categories - editorial, interact, etc. [Already done by Martin] (YL, 0806)

Done

ACTION: Editors to produce and publicize the list of changes made in the latest ED draft. (ED, 0806, 0831)

Kavantzas - We have captured in spreadsheet; can we distribute?
Ritzinger: It needs to be updated.

SRT: Received 19 August 2004. (on editors list)
SRT: Provide notes in an email on how to review.

In progress.

ACTION: Editors to evolve it in the next few weeks with goal of enabling the WG to adopt a new WD at the next formal meeting 31 Aug. (ED, 0806, 0831)

In Progress

ACTION: Review and produce LC comments on the WSDL 2.0 docs by the end of the next f2f. Need someone to coordinate the activity. Chairs to put on agenda for 31 aug. (CHAIRS, 0806, 0831)

SRT - Deal with soon unless time today.
SRT: Volunteers to coordinate.
Chapman: Will do so if he receives input.
Fletcher: Barreto is doing related work.

Ongoing

Issues Processing Meetings
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1st meeting: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2004Aug/0010.html

Chapman: Some issues require clarification.
Chapman: Recommend if any not clarified should be closed automatically.
Kavantzas: This should be 1 month before last call.

SRT: Make people aware and place a time limit on clarification.
SRT: Set 1 month before last call (30 November 2004).

Chapman: Any objections for recommendations?

SRT: No objections.

2nd meeting http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2004Aug/0018.html

Chapman: Issue 691 - Martin has provided clarification; still open.

Meet Issues Triage this Thursday (2 September 2004).

Chapman: Choreography/44 bugs; down from about 100.

Chapman: 33 to triage this week.

Planning
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F2F what we want to achieve.

SRT: F2F - Goals?
LC and scoping.

SRT: Scope last call.

SRT: Editors' support

Supporting the editors.

F2F: Martin: Resolve open issues.

Martin: Dates 28-30 September in Manhattan.

Chapman: We can have proposals or discuss issues.

Kavantzas: More difficult to handle proposals on the phone.

Chapman: Is timing to soon for anyone?

SRT: Yes, but we don't have a choice.

Chapman: Agreed.

Fletcher: Can we change?

SRT: OASIS Event 4-6 October; Policy workshop next week.

Fletcher: We need new draft as soon as possible to review. This would set the temper of the next F2F (new draft, issues, etc).

SRT: Editors' work as quickly as possible to get draft to group. Propose to adopt.

Fletcher: Timing of draft may impact F2F date.

SRT: Editors have a later draft.

Chapman: When is next draft?

SRT: Draft to group prior to next F2F.

SFT: After final triage, we can scope what we need or can reasonably fix.

Martin: We should address distributed choice.

Fletcher: Add concern about specific conformance statement.

Chapman: Add Barreto work (bindings, WSDL).

SRT: Enigmatic proposal updates/work.

SRT: Exception handling in distributed environment

Chapman: These are potential issue discussion points for Sept. F2F.

Kavantzas: Have to get WSDL portion correct.

SRT: No proposals made with exceptions.

Kavantzas: Does a coordination protocol apply in distributed choice?

Chapman: Yes and to exceptions.

Kavantzas: What about templating?

Burdett: Still need to work on.

Burdett: Will try to integrate proposed changes into the draft.

Burdett: Not in the next F2F.

SRT: Minimal set of features required for CDL-lite (v1.0).

SRT: Simple and useful are important.

Chapman: We have to have F2F (ref: Martin question).

Lafon: Locations will be uploaded 1 Sept.

SRT: Revisit if we go longer than 30 Sept next meeting.

Summary of New and Open Actions:
--------------------------------------------------

NEW ACTION: SRT raise an issue on type system and warnings (SRT, 0831)

NEW ACTION: Chapman log UML model as an issue. (MC, 0831)

ACTION: SRT to raise MEP extensibility problem with the WS-CG (SRT, 0806, 0831)

NEW ACTION: Ritzinger to log as issue the need for need InputChannelVariable, OutputChannelVariable, FaultChannelVariable.(GR, 0831)

NEW ACTION: Ritzinger to log as an issue proposals for requirements for rules governing endpoint generation both in the absence and presence of WSDL. (GR, 0831)

ACTION: Charlton to look at impact on our language of supporting BP (WS-I Basic Profile) 1.1, SSBP (Simple SOAP Binding Profile) 1.0, AP (Attachments Profile) 1.0 (CB, 0806, 0831)

ACTION: Open new issue to investigate the solicit-response and notification in WSDL 1.0 and WDSL 2.0 (OPEN, 0806, 0831)

ACTION: Editors to produce and publicize the list of changes made in the latest ED draft. (ED, 0806, 0831)

ACTION: Editors to evolve it in the next few weeks with goal of enabling the WG to adopt a new WD at the next formal meeting 31 Aug. (ED, 0806, 0831)

ACTION: Review and produce LC comments on the WSDL 2.0 docs by the end of the next f2f. Need someone to coordinate the activity. Chairs to put on agenda for 31 aug. (CHAIRS, 0806, 0831)