Minutes 15 June 04 Con Call

Agenda is at:
	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2004Jun/0009.html

Role Call:
	Chairs:	
 		Martin Chapman		Oracle
		Steve Ross-Talbot	Enigmatec
	W3C Staff Contacts:
		Carine Bournez	
		Yves Lafon	

Monica Martin		Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Nickolas Kavantzas	Oracle Corporation
Jeff Mischkinsky	Oracle Corporation
Greg Ritzinger		Novell
Abbie Barbir		Nortel Networks
David Burdett		Commerce One
Mayilraj Krishnan	Cisco Systems Inc
Anthony Fletcher	Choreology Ltd


Monica Martin was appointed scribe

Log is at: 
	http://www.w3.org/2004/06/15-ws-chor-irc#T19-12-46

Approve Minutes of last meeting:
	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2004Jun/0007.html
	Minutes approved 

*** Action Item Review ***

ACTION 1: (Tony, 0525, 0601, 0615) to look at element choreography notation to see how we may be able to roll up transaction features into it. IN PROGRESS


ACTION 2: (SRT, 0525, 0601): Take the TWIST example we're working on, add part of the flow what can go wrong, see what happens when things go wrong.  We can see in front of us the choreography being executed, what we do today with current language, what we can do with transaction. Steve is starting to add exception handling.  Nick and Steve have corresponded on "perform" which revealed some errors in the specification to be corrected. VERSION 1 DONE. VERSION 2 (WITH EXCEPTIONS) TO DO.

ACTION 3:  Chairs to put Steve's contribution on Banana Calculus on agenda to discuss next week. DONE

ACTION 4: (NK, 0511, 0525, 0601): to prepare a list of tasks for editing, and at the next editing conference call, will ask those present to help with them. Editors met this Monday and have made a list of to dos.  Maybe meet again Thursday.  They think that there are about 40 editorials and 20 issues that require more thought. DONE

ACTION 5:  Nick/Dave/Greg to send a list of to dos to the mailing list by the end of Friday. DONE

Kavantzas: Editors' F2F 10 June. Will meet again 17 June 2004. Clarifications to SRT. Anticipate updated draft by next F2F at a minimum.

ACTION 6 (CHAIRS, 0525, 0601):  Chairs to ensure that the main group approve closure of issues recommended for closure by the issues triage sub-group. Chairs to check minutes to see if already done. NO PROGRESS (PROBABLY 12 or so new issues)?
See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2004Jun/ for outstanding issues.

ACTION 7(ALL, 0525, 0601):  Everyone to consider whether they can volunteer to own an issues category or two.  PLEASE SEND EMAILS TO CHAIRS NAMING ISSUES OR CATEGORIES YOU ARE PREPARED TO OWN. Volunteers for issue categories.  Monica - import, Steve - exceptions (with Greg) Charlton Binding.  

ACTION 8: Martin to keep this list up to date on his spreadsheet.  ON GOING
Chapman: Link to admin page may be helpful.
NEW ACTION: Martin/Yves put link on admin page for current spreadsheet.

ACTION 9:  Martin to keep list of category owners up to date on his spreadsheet. DONE
Condolidated list is at: 
	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor-comments/2004Jun/att-0005/triage.txt
	SRT: Briefly addressed the issues.
	SRT: What about 276 and 281?
	Chapman: Resolved and fixed.

	Martin C proposed adopting the consolidated issues list. (PASSED, No Objections)

ACTION 10:  Steve to invite Matthew Arrott, Bill Specht, Gary Brown (Enigmatec) and Kevin Houston to the next WS-Choreography face-to-face meeting. IN PROGRESS

ACTION 11:  Chairs to think about how to best progress from now on. DONE

ACTION 12:  Chairs to put together a proposal and attempt to gain consensus on priorities at next conference call. NO PROGRESS



*** Banana Calculus ***
	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2004Jun/0016.html
	SRT Banana calculus was all about CDL's ability to model, handle, propagate or use marked alternative paths for exception handling.  Propagation can be handled by an interaction, exception block.

	SRT: How do we do endpoint generation?  Stubs of exceptions perhaps?
	Kavantzas: Operational semantics of choreography recovery is defined.
	SRT: I would conjecture that WS-CDL is therefore complete to handle exceptions.
	Fletcher: It can handle timeouts. Can it handle one that involves another partner? In the TWIST example, the trading service receives a price request. The TS has to send to at least 1 seller in a given point of time.
	SRT: Two timeouts exist. A policy or SLA may involve a timeout across them.
	Fletcher: Disagree.  What cancels the timeout?
	Fletcher: How do you relate the timeouts?
	SRT: A modeling problem may exist if the timeout times different.
	Fletcher: Timeouts are set when messages are received.  Timeouts have to link to an interaction rather than a message.
	Kavantzas: Time to complete is between two roles. 
	SRT: Start time when interaction commences.  At completion before TTC, then the timer finishes.
	Fletcher: Still may see an issue if the time to complete is only between the two roles.
	SRT: Is there a higher level requirement?  May have to do with policy?
	Fletcher: Will share more thoughts with further review. What about across interactions with multiple roles?

	SRT: Caveat with related issue exists. Does within an exception blocks' work unit can you perform a choreography that is the same as the choreography that encloses the exception block?
	Kavantzas: Today you cannot recurse. Rule exists to preclude this (for recovery and perform.,
	SRT: Should you be able to resume a choreography if the exception block fixes the problem.  I believe not.

	SRT: Issue 496 is related to this.  Think of it in the context of code development. 
	Burdett: What about this case - PO to supplier in chor - send to this URL with SOAP. Have an alternative method to send to another address.
	SRT: write a code example please.
	Chapman: Proposals to schedule?

*** Issues Category Run Thru ***
	Import (Monica). NO PROGRESS
	Interacts:
		SRT: Interacts and variables - Brown and I developing a proposal for F2F.  Do you use state alignment to get out of a race conditions or do alternate mechanisms apply. We may propose an augmentation.

	Exceptions and faults: 
		Ritzinger no progress.

	Coordination: 
		Awaiting input from SRT (see above on Interacts and variables).
	Layering: 
		Kavantzas - this is about abstract-portable-concrete.  This is about templating. Bug needs to be updated.
		Burdett: I sent a proposal.  Address in Thursday's editor's meeting.

	Miscellaneous: 
		Chapman said these may need to be separated. 

NOTE FROM STEVE: We really do need to use the public list to further the work as much as possible. If I can put out stuff that is half baked then so can everyone else.

*** Example subgroup ***
	Ritzinger will have some example information in the middle of July.
	Krishnan: TWIST example - another version sent; appended commented version.  Example sent by SRT.
	SRT: Want to model channel passing for price requests (related asynchrony).
	Krishnan: What about Oracle example?
	Kavantzas: Waiting for management ok to release. Work in progress.

	Example subgroup meet in two weeks.

AOB
	Meeting Next Week
		SRT: Suggest no call (PASSED,  Martin seconds.  No objections)
		Next meeting will be 29 June 2004.
	F2F agenda
		NEW ACTION: Chairs will take first stab at agenda (to accommodate Kavantzas going on vacation).
	BPEL report
		SRT: Move to adopt BPEL report (PASSED, No objection)

	Closing comments
		Chapman: Add editors' meetings should be minuted and provided to public list.
		Kavantzas: Can we get more help then?