W3C WS-Choreography group Minutes

6th April 2004

1. Role Call

        Tony Fletcher (Choreology), 
        David Burdett (Commerce One), 
        Steve Ross-Talbot (Co-Chair - Enigmatec), 
        Assaf Arkin (Intalio), 
        Abbie Barbir (Nortel), 
        Greg Ritzinger (Novell), 
        Martin Chapman (Co-Chair - Oracle), 
        Jeff Mischkinsky & Nickolas Kavantzas (Oracle), 
        Kevin Liu (SAP), 
        Daniel Austin & Monica Martin (Sun), 
        Yves Lafon (W3C staff)
        Carine Bournez (W3C staff)

2. Confirm Scribe

        Tony Fletcher agreed to scribe.
        The following is the list of recent scribes (in order): 
                Tony Fletcher, David Burdett, Kevin Liu, Jeff Mischkinsky, 
                Monica Martin, Nick Kavantzas, Greg Ritzinger, David Burdett, 
                Tony Fletcher, Monica Martin, UgoCorda, Mayilraj Krishnan, 
                Ravi Byakod , Martin Chapman, Steve Ross-Talbot, Monica Martin, 
                Nick Kavantzas, Ed Peters, Anthony Fletcher, Jeff Michkinsky,  
                Dinesh Shahane, Greg Ritzinger, Ed Peters, David Burdett, 
                Ivana Trickovic, Ugo Corda, Assaf Arkin, Monica Martin, 
                Carol McDonald, Nick Kavantzas, TonyFletcher, Mayilraj Krishnan, 
                Francis McCabe, Jeff Mischkinsky, David Burdett, John Dart, 
                Monica Martin, Tony Fletcher, Jim Hendler, Kevin Liu, Tony Fletcher, 
                Jon Dart, David Burdett, Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger, Monica Martin, 
                Len Greski, Jean-Jacques Dubray, Monica Martin, Mayilraj Krishnan, 
                Francis McCabe, Michael Champion, Abbie Barbir, David Burdett, 
                Jon Dart, Carol McDonald, Yaron Goland, Len Greski, Ed Peters, 
                Greg Ritzinger, Daniel Austin, Peter Furniss, Jim Hendler

3. Approve minutes

        The notes of the teleconference held 23rd March 2004 were approved with 
        the proviso that the roll-call would be checked for scribes and particularly for 
        when Greg did scribing 

4. Actions Item Review

ACTION: editors to produce html of doc:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2004Mar/att-0002/cdl_v1_editors.pdf (0301, 0309, 0316, 0323) - DONE

ACTION: Yves to publish the html of WD of CDL (dependent on previous action. (0309, 0316, 0323) - IN PROGRESS.  Yves has sent a version to the chairs for their final approval.

ACTION: Yves add link to current editor's draft of CDL (will point to the WD for the moment). (0301, 0309, 0316, 0323) - DONE

ACTION: SRT send email to public list reminding people how to handle comments and issues on the docs. (0309, 0316, 0323) - IN PROGRESS

ACTION: Greg to code up use case (from Requirements document) in CDL (0301, 0309, 0316, 0323) - IN PROGRESS.

ACTION: Code banana calculus examples in CDL (0316, 0323) - IN PROGRESS

5. Planning

        ** F2F May: 11th - 13th **

NEW ACTION: the chairs to produce an agenda and mail out.  Add to the agenda a session on W3C 
processes and procedures for document progression, but main item will be to review and work on the 

NEW ACTION: Martin to create registration form.

        The meeting is scheduled for 11 - 13th May, 2004 at Oracle headquarters, Redwood City, California.

        ** F2F August: 4th-6th ** 
        Proposed to be first week in August 2004 probably Wednesday 4th to Friday 6th August 2004.  
        Steve is working on a location in London which may be at Imperial College.  
        Robin Milner, Nobuko Yoshida and Kohei Honda have promised to be present.

NEW ACTION: Steve to resolve the venue for next week.

        ** F2F Sep/Oct 26th or 4th **
        Thinking about an East Coast USA location and hosts are invited.  
        The favourite periods seem to be some time in the week of 26th September, or the week of 
        4th October. 

6. Issues/Proposals

        No issues or proposals reported at this time

7. New Editors Draft

        Specification editing group report and editor's draft overview
        http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2004Apr/0004.html (see pdf)
        The chairs requested that someone from the editing group give highlights of the latest draft 
        dated 3rd April 2004. 
        Nick responded that the main changes were to remove the idea of the three levels - abstract, 
        portable and concrete.  As he recalled this was the only significant change - other changes 
        were mainly of an editorial nature.  Examples have been added to various sections of the 
        document and the major example that was in the old section 3 has been moved.
        Martin said that we needed to update Bugzilla for the issues that have been resolved by this 
        revision.  Nick said he thought that this version was mainly a reorganisation of the document 
        and thus did not close any issues.

NEW ACTION: Martin to hold another issues triages.

        It was noted that issues can only be formally resolved by a working draft and not an editor's 
        draft.  The document should now only be changed by:
                1) issues resolution, 
                2) accepting a contribution, or 
                3)  editorial changes.

        Daniel suggested that a small number of people review and recommend a progression path.  Martin 
        responded that unfortunately the group is small now and he was in favour of the whole group doing 
        this.  Need to determine which issues this version resolves, if any. 
        Steve asked for a list of the resolutions made at the face-to-face and the issues in Bugzilla 
        that this version resolves, if any.

NEW ACTION: Steve  and Nick to list the resolutions made at the face-to-face and the issues in Bugzilla 
that this version resolves (but may be none as the changes are mainly editorial in nature).

        Aim to adopt this editor's draft as the new working draft next week on the call.  Folk can always 
        raise an issue or make a contribution to bring in text from a previous version.

NEW ACTION: all to comment with a view to promoting this editor's draft to working draft. 

        Tony asked about the model overview document and its ongoing status.  Martin responded that that 
        was only intended as a transition document.  We now needed to decide what should be in the 
        specification and what should be in the primer.  Martin asked that Tony look at the model overview 
        and suggest what should be in the specification and what should be in the primer.

NEW ACTION: Tony and others to look at the model overview and suggest what should be in the specification and 
what should be in the primer.

        Dave has previously offered to drive the primer with the help of others.  Examples in CDL would 
        seem to fit into the primer.

NEW ACTION: Steve to raise moving the UML diagrams into the model overview section as an issue.

        We will only find real issues with CDL as people try to use it.  Steve said he was meeting with 
        a fixML person and some other folk to see if we can express their situation in CDL.


        Martin gave a presentation on WS-Choreography at the recent WS BPEL Technical Committee face-to-face 
        meeting (hosted by SAP in Walldorf, Germany).  Satish Thatte (Microsoft) asked what CDL could do 
        that abstract BPEL cannot do.  Martin and others present tried to get over the multi-party conformance 
        aspect of CDL.  It was noted that the WS BPEL group was still working on the precise definition of 
        abstract and executable BPEL and relationships between them, and in particular the problems of 
        determining if an executable description corresponded to an abstract description.

        Martin will think about the liaison requirements.  It may depend on the extent to which the CAF group 
        tackles co-ordination protocols.

Any Other Business
        Monica asked about the next face-to-face meeting and Steve recappped the information earlier in these