Minutes of W3C WS Choreography WG conference call held on 2nd December 2003,1pm PDT


Agenda 20031202.htm




Steve Ross-Talbot


 Martin Chapman (apologies)


W3C Staff Contacts






Yaron Goland

BEA Systems

Michael Champion

Software AG

Monica Martin

Sun Microsystems, Inc.

Anthony Fletcher

Choreology Ltd

Mayilraj Krishnan

Cisco Systems Inc

Nickolas Kavantzas

Oracle Corporation

Assaf Arkin

Intalio Inc.

Ugo Corda

SeeBeyond Technology Corporation

Ivana Trickovic


David Burdett

Commerce One

Greg Ritzinger


Yoko Seki

Hitachi, Ltd.

Dinesh Shahane

TIBCO Software



irc log at http://www.w3.org/2003/12/02-ws-chor-irc


Appointment of scribe:


Dinesh Shahane (Tibco) volunteered to scribe.


The following is a list of recent scribes(inorder): Greg Ritzinger, Ed Peters, David Burdett, Ivana Trickovic, Ugo Corda, Assaf Arkin, MonicaMartin, Carol McDonald, NickKavantzas, Tony Fletcher, MayilrajKrishnan, Francis McCabe, Jeff Mischkinsky,David Burdett ,John Dart, Monica Martin,Tony, Fletcher, Jim Hendler, Kevin Liu, TonyFletcher, Jon Dart, David Burdett,Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger, Monica Martin, LenGreski, Jean-Jacques Dubray,Monica Martin, Mayilraj Krishnan, FrancisMcCabe, Michael Champion, AbbieBarbir, David Burdett, Jon Dart, Carol McDonald,Yaron Goland, Leonard Greski,Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger, Daniel Austin, PeterFurniss, Jim Hendler


Approve minutes

 Minutes 25th November 2003

Minutes were approved

Action item review


ACTION : chairs look at WSA issues process and recommend whether it should be adopted by this group. (IN PROGRESS, 1021, 1028, 1111,1118, 1125, 1202)

5.     Standing tracking items (a section designed to ensure that longer running items are properly tracked)

Requirements  next steps (progress/review)

ACTION: Daniel to look though document and see whichrequirements we captured so far regarding transactions. (NO PROGRESS,1021, 1028, 1111, 1118, 1125, 1202)

ACTION: SRT will clarify Daniel's status (DONE)

SRT - Daniel works for SUN and has no official status in the group

SRT: Daniel wishes to be part of this group and has requested that the editors continue to include him in the group for the time being until such time as his status is clarified.

ACTION: SRT to edit section 2.1-2.3 to make clear what is meant by contract. (IN PROGRESS 1125, DONE – see introduction section

ACTION: SRT to clarify use of “business transaction” using more neutral terminology if possible in section 2.1 (IN PROGRESS 1125, 1202)

ACTION: Editors of the requirements are directed to look at the issues list and filter each issue in a similar way to the filtering method used at the F2F. To be taken into account at editors meeting in November. ( IN PROGRESS, 1021, 1028,1111, 1118, 1125, 1202)

Requirements Document Feedback
Nothing to report 
Issue tracking (progress/review)

Nothing to report
Specification Editors report

ACTION: Nick to see if roles/participants fit with forth coming meta model (IN PROGRESS for F2F 1202)

David - Gave status on Specification Editors report, call amonr editors on friday to review

SRT - Chairs to ensure that base specs matches against requirements

David - Gave information about meta model representation format (vision) instead of using XML as suggested by Tony

6. Liaison


ACTION: Chairs write a report for WS-BPEL technical committee prior to our F2F (IN PROGRESS 1125, 1202)


ACTION: Chairs to get back to Monica about the F2F w/ BPSS group. Include agenda in next call (IN PROGRESS, 1125, 1202)



7. Hot topics
Compensation first, last

Tony - Compensation is divided in two sub-issues 1. Doing a transaction action and keep a log and at the end clear the log or run the log

Tony - 2. Add actions (just validate it) keep a journal or forward log, just burn the forward log. For confirm run the forward log

Tony - Keep a controlling process which will do/undo the compensate action based on business rules

SRT What language features are needed for compensate mechanics

Tony - Detailed mechanism need not be a part of CDL

Tony - You would need the indication of the transaction outcome in CDL

Tony - Oracle spec used compensate terms

Nick - Chor defines normal, error actions and undo steps

Nick - Tony, confirm if you need seperate handlers for cancel or confirm

Tony - You need to indicate if a particular transaction is cancel ro confirmed to take execution path

Nick - Need clarification from tony about what is needed in OracleML for Txn

Tony - Will write to group about what is needed

Monica - State transition is key information in CDL

SRT - Need to observe state changes for ACID transactions

SRT - Need built-in messages

Ugo - Full exhanges and states should be part of the CDL

Nick - Observable behavior is for positive and negative outcomes not just positive flows

Nick - Need clarification on forward recovery mechanics from Tony's mail

Tony - There is a difference in CDL and BPEL, In BPEL you need more details in language for cancel and confirm

Nick - What details you need? Need in abstract process?

Tony - No

Tony - Abstract BPEL you will have cancel and confirm handler with no details

Tony - You don't show internals of cancel and confirm handlers

Nick - Do you need and invoke on byuer side for cancel?

Nick - Do you have receive on seller side for cancel?

Tony - Anything that generate a message needs to be described in the CDL

Nick - Protocol messages are not part of CDL

Tony - Need switch statement (using reaction or guard) to take transition paths

Nick - It will be confusing to add these transitions, prefer blocks including visibility

SRT - Take this topic for F2F

ACTION: Chairs to take transactions topics to F2F.

Semantics and choreographies  first, last

SRT - Created a writeup (mail) talks about semantics and choreographies

SRT - Provided some details about the mail just got couple of replys e.g, about UDDI

Ugo - Semantics are derived from involved services in addition to the choreographies

Ugo - Gave example of transaction semantices defined in web-services and the choreographies using these services

Ugo - Semantic information for services are being discussed in WSDL, WSIL, UDDI. These discussions are not concrete yet,

we may not undertake this

Monica - There is already work going on in ebxml regrep. group. Already sent email about it.

Ugo - To keep track of semantics related work in UDDI

SRT - Importing Ontology to CDL may be useful

Ugo - Service lookup based on message filtered using ontology (RDF on WSDL) can be laveraged.

SRT - Import and use terms from the ontology will be useful

David - It is a good idea. But building choreographies would make it fragile, it should be optional

Choreography & orchestration must be defined in context first, last
Intermediaries first, last
8.     AOB.
Next weeks conference call

Monica - Will there be call next week?

MikeC - I can be here

Monica - I will be at WS-BPEL next week.

Tony - Is it a last call before F2F? I can be too

Greg - I can too.

MikeC - Actually, I'm at XML 2003 next week, but I don't think I have a commitment at this time.

SRT - Will decide about next call later today

F2F meeting in Cambridge

SRT - Any questions about F2F

SRT - Dinner scheduled and Robin Milner will be coming

Meeting Closed

Summary of new action items

ACTION: Chairs to take transactions topics to F2F.

ACTION : Chairs to get back to Monica about the F2F w/ BPSS group. Include agenda in next call.