Present:
AT&T: Mark Jones
AT&T: Steve Monetti (alt)
AT&T: Ayse Dilber
BEA Systems: David Orchard
ChevronTexaco: Roger Cutler
Contivo: Dave Hollander
France Telecom: Shishir Garg
Fujitsu: Frank McCabe
IBM: Chris Ferris
IBM: Heather Kreger
Idokorro Mobile: Mark Baker
IONA: Eric Newcomer
Oracle Corporation: Martin Chapman
Progress: Colleen Evans
SAP: Sinisa Zimek
Software AG: Michael Champion
Sun Microsystems, Inc: .Doug Bunting
The Thomson Corporation: Hao He
W3C: Hugo Haas
W3C: David Booth
Agenda
- 19:38:44 [Zakim]
- +??P13
- 19:40:40 [dbooth]
- Scribe: Frank
- 19:41:02 [dbooth]
- Chairs: Mike Champion & Dave Hollander
- 19:41:07 [frankmcca]
- zakim, I am frank
- 19:41:09 [Zakim]
- ok, frankmcca, I now associate you with Frank
- 19:41:19 [frankmcca]
- agenda:
- 19:41:24 [frankmcca]
- charter proposal
- 19:42:03 [frankmcca]
- wsci submission is a starting point?
- 19:42:41 [frankmcca]
- f2f agenda
- 19:43:27 [Kreger]
- Chris will try to join later
- 19:43:37 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 19:44:27 [frankmcca]
- ws desc group overlap for f2f
- 19:45:03 [frankmcca]
- minimal overlap with web services wg expected
- 19:45:50 [Zakim]
- -Colleen_Evans
- 19:45:58 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 19:46:02 [Zakim]
- -??P15
- 19:46:11 [frankmcca]
- requirements discussion to a close, to get closure on requirements document
- 19:46:36 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 19:48:00 [frankmcca]
- f2f: choreography wg, workshop
- 19:48:18 [frankmcca]
- reading list
- 19:49:20 [MarkB]
- MarkB has joined #ws-arch
- 19:49:46 [Zakim]
- +MarkB
- 19:53:46 [Zakim]
- + +1.617.439.aacc
- 19:57:04 [frankmcca]
- mark baker to talk about about REST?
- 19:57:39 [frankmcca]
- We would like to give a presentation on business related aspects of web services
- 19:57:43 [frankmcca]
- :-)
- 19:59:19 [DaveH]
- Frank will be given time for a presentation prior to covering the requirements document
- 20:00:00 [DaveH]
- Frank is encouraged to begin discussion on email list regarding requirments.
- 20:00:40 [DaveH]
- Mark and DaveO will be given 1 hour for presentation at f2f
- 20:00:59 [frankmcca]
- f2f agenda: requirements phase, architecture phase
- 20:01:31 [frankmcca]
- usage scenario document progress
- 20:03:13 [frankmcca]
- status of usage scenario doc - published at end of July working draft
- 20:03:47 [frankmcca]
- hugo: some parts need more work. editorial comments.
- 20:04:18 [frankmcca]
- security usage scenarios needed
- 20:04:53 [frankmcca]
- status: does not represent consensue yet.
- 20:05:08 [frankmcca]
- half day session on usage scenario
- 20:05:39 [frankmcca]
- technical issues with doc: improve consistency
- 20:05:54 [frankmcca]
- please contribute text
- 20:06:04 [chrisf]
- chrisf has joined #ws-arch
- 20:06:36 [Zakim]
- +Chris_Ferris
- 20:06:43 [chrisf]
- howdy
- 20:07:20 [frankmcca]
- glossary: definitions will need discussion. Alternate editor required?
- 20:07:34 [frankmcca]
- glossary needs organization
- 20:07:55 [chrisf]
- the important thing missing is attribution/biblio!!!!!
- 20:08:37 [chrisf]
- zakim, agenda?
- 20:08:38 [Zakim]
- I see nothing on the agenda
- 20:09:04 [frankmcca]
- heather: management asepcts of WSA, sometime during 2nd/3rd day
- 20:09:38 [frankmcca]
- f2f agenda summary:
- 20:10:09 [frankmcca]
- requirements doc, presnetations by Mark Baker & Frank McCabe, architecture itself, management issues, usage document, glossary
- 20:10:51 [Zakim]
- +??P32
- 20:11:13 [frankmcca]
- hugo: architecture doc. MEPs in intro, in SOAP section, in WSDL, how should they be related to each other
- 20:11:20 [Zakim]
- -R_Radhika
- 20:11:45 [DaveH]
- Yes, it is.
- 20:11:52 [chrisf]
- what about RM?
- 20:12:13 [frankmcca]
- roger: relaible messaging must be in the requirements document
- 20:12:37 [DaveH]
- personally, I agree. RM is essential.
- 20:13:17 [frankmcca]
- AC017 may be dropped, in which case we must put reliable messaging in specifically
- 20:14:48 [DaveH]
- Action: chairs to add RM and Management as sub-topic of during the architecture document session
- 20:15:27 [DaveH]
- Action: Roger to restrucutre AC017 to capture RM but drop other items
- 20:15:35 [dbooth]
- Frank == Francis McCabe, Fujitsu
- 20:16:05 [frankmcca]
- Am I that bad a scribe?
- 20:16:16 [frankmcca]
- :-)
- 20:16:31 [DaveH]
- NO! >)
- 20:16:43 [chrisf]
- ACTION: chairs to add RM and Management as sub-topic of during the architecture document session
- 20:16:54 [chrisf]
- ACTION: Roger to restrucutre AC017 to capture RM but drop other items
- 20:17:43 [frankmcca]
- The WSDL harverseting efforts not reflected in the WSA document currently and the processing model is not yet clear in the document
- 20:17:44 [chrisf]
- ACTION: Hao to republish WSDL harvesting message URIs
- 20:18:58 [Zakim]
- -??P13
- 20:19:53 [frankmcca]
- text for wsa doc welcome. preferably drop in text :-)
- 20:20:15 [chrisf]
- people sending emails recommending text for specs should copy w3c-wsa-editors@w3.org so we can track these better
- 20:20:57 [frankmcca]
- ACTION: daveH to provide top down text
- 20:21:40 [frankmcca]
- charter for choreography wg has been published privately
- 20:22:39 [frankmcca]
- CG charter topic next tuesday (choreography WG charter)
- 20:23:47 [frankmcca]
- scoping statement for choreography WG.
- 20:23:53 [Zakim]
- -Sinisa_Zimek
- 20:24:36 [frankmcca]
- discuss charter formally next week. Will have been discussed by CG. f2f can react to scoping section and overall document.
- 20:25:03 [frankmcca]
- must be done by f2f.
- 20:25:29 [frankmcca]
- eric: Iona will have specific comments to charter.
- 20:26:07 [frankmcca]
- current charter is open, additional constraints will be considered
- 20:26:20 [frankmcca]
- ACTION: all comments to proposed charter asap
- 20:27:36 [frankmcca]
- mark baker feels its not needed, but will not object to chartering group.
- 20:32:03 [mnot]
- +q
- 20:32:07 [mnot]
- q+
- 20:33:28 [chrisf]
- ack mnot
- 20:33:31 [frankmcca]
- ACTION: workshop discussion on choreography in f2f agenda
- 20:35:08 [mnot]
- q+
- 20:35:08 [frankmcca]
- relationship between the CWG (Choreography WG) and WSA WG; substantive issue of how to run the workshop, and the relationship between choreography and WSA itself
- 20:36:06 [frankmcca]
- 8 weeks needed to establishing CWG from f2f
- 20:36:11 [DaveH]
- p-
- 20:36:15 [DaveH]
- q-
- 20:36:24 [mchampion]
- ack mnot
- 20:37:05 [frankmcca]
- mnot: potentially destructive to hold a workshop to decide whether to have a CWG or not
- 20:37:17 [frankmcca]
- It may not be a workshop from W3C process POV
- 20:37:18 [DaveH]
- q+
- 20:37:43 [dbooth]
- Frank, what you're describing sure sounds like a workshop!
- 20:38:16 [frankmcca]
- Ahh, its all in the legal technicalities
- 20:38:23 [chrisf]
- we discussed w/s to be held concurrent with chartering process and not serially
- 20:38:31 [chrisf]
- on last week's call
- 20:38:53 [dbooth]
- http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process-20010719/events.html#GAEvents
- 20:39:00 [frankmcca]
- workshop targetted to bootstrapping the CWG as effectively as possible
- 20:39:26 [frankmcca]
- What are the dangers of halding a workshop?
- 20:39:47 [DaveH]
- ack daveh
- 20:39:49 [Zakim]
- - +1.617.439.aacc
- 20:40:21 [frankmcca]
- dangers: from W3C has a specific function.
- 20:40:35 [frankmcca]
- dangers: from W3C a workshop has a specific function.
- 20:41:17 [frankmcca]
- seems to be consensus that CWG is a good thing. The proposed charter a good starting point
- 20:41:56 [frankmcca]
- ACTION: all anyone willing to edit glossary, please contact editors.
- 20:42:01 [frankmcca]
- dbooth volunteers
- 20:42:41 [frankmcca]
- WSCI submission
- 20:43:16 [frankmcca]
- W3C has directed the WSCI submission to WSAWG for consideration
- 20:43:45 [frankmcca]
- WSCI desrerves some discussion
- 20:43:52 [frankmcca]
- in this WG
- 20:44:07 [frankmcca]
- Is this a template for the CWG?
- 20:44:32 [frankmcca]
- What CSFs does WSCI fullfill?
- 20:44:42 [dbooth]
- Incidentally, the lead time requirements for a F2F meeting are the same as for a Workshop: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process-20010719/groups.html#GeneralMeetings (both 8 weeks)
- 20:45:16 [frankmcca]
- WSCI is explicit input to proposed CWG, what are we trying to decide in this group now?
- 20:45:30 [DaveH]
- http://www.w3.org/Submission/2002/04/Comment
- 20:45:54 [frankmcca]
- Submission was made to WSA WG
- 20:46:20 [dbooth]
- Dave, in what page did you find the broken link?
- 20:46:36 [DaveH]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/wsci/
- 20:46:59 [frankmcca]
- We should make some progress in understanding relationship between choreography and rest of WSA. Decisions not being here, education is the topic at hand
- 20:47:04 [dougb]
- http://www.w3.org/Submission/2002/04/ link on same page is also broken (forbidden)
- 20:47:17 [frankmcca]
- ??
- 20:47:23 [dbooth]
- queue =
- 20:47:43 [dbooth]
- Frank, you've confused zakim!
- 20:47:48 [dbooth]
- q?
- 20:48:39 [DaveH]
- q?
- 20:48:42 [frankmcca]
- WSCI exists to replace hypertext as business interaction
- 20:48:42 [DaveH]
- ack
- 20:48:47 [DaveH]
- ack
- 20:48:57 [frankmcca]
- zakim, q-
- 20:48:58 [Zakim]
- I see We, Should, Make, Some, Progress, In, Understanding, Relationship, Between, Choreography, Rest, Of, WSA., Decisions, Not, Being, Here, Education, Is, The, Topic, At on the
- 20:49:00 [Zakim]
- ... speaker queue
- 20:49:20 [dbooth]
- queue=dbooth
- 20:49:24 [dbooth]
- q?
- 20:49:27 [dbooth]
- q-
- 20:49:30 [frankmcca]
- you don't follow links, you invoke methods
- 20:49:58 [DaveH]
- frank, please note that it is one members position:
- 20:50:14 [frankmcca]
- RESTocruteans
- 20:50:19 [frankmcca]
- RESTocruateans
- 20:50:26 [frankmcca]
- RESTocrusteans
- 20:50:50 [frankmcca]
- Humans can deal with hypertext, programs can't
- 20:50:51 [DaveH]
- another view: point is to write code that can konw what it will be doing apriori
- 20:51:24 [frankmcca]
- we should prejudice choreography from other inputs
- 20:51:34 [frankmcca]
- we should NOT prejudice choreography from other inputs
- 20:51:47 [dougb]
- q+
- 20:52:04 [dougb]
- ack dougb
- 20:52:57 [mnot]
- q+
- 20:53:02 [frankmcca]
- is anything wrong with our response to WSCI "we have recommended chartering a CWG, and thanks"
- 20:53:27 [frankmcca]
- More is needed to reflect a proper respective to the work involved
- 20:55:59 [frankmcca]
- BEA, Sun, Oracle(?) feels that a response along above lines is fine
- 20:56:24 [frankmcca]
- We shhould harvest WSCI for WSA
- 20:57:00 [frankmcca]
- There is a use case in the WSCI doc, we should grab it?
- 20:57:15 [frankmcca]
- ACTION: all, read the WSCI doc.
- 20:57:29 [dbooth]
- queue=
- 20:57:34 [frankmcca]
- Discuss at the next telecon
- 20:57:53 [dougb]
- sorry, bye now
- 20:57:59 [Zakim]
- -Dougb?
- 20:58:09 [DaveH]
- next week, same bat time, real bat channel
- 20:58:24 [Zakim]
- -Mark_A_Jones
- 20:59:09 [DaveH]
- ACTION: chairs to add wsci doc to f2f reading list
- 20:59:47 [frankmcca]
- registration deadline is sept 1st
- 21:00:06 [frankmcca]
- teleconference bridge - one request so far
- 21:00:18 [DaveH]
- those who register late, are at the discression of the host and are not likely to have food service
- 21:00:44 [DaveH]
- ACTION: daveB will secure 5 dial in lines
- 21:01:15 [DaveH]
- ttfn
- 21:01:18 [Zakim]
- -??P14
- 21:01:19 [frankmcca]
- see you next week in full official mode
- 21:01:23 [Zakim]
- -??P5
- 21:01:25 [Zakim]
- -Chris_Ferris
- 21:01:26 [Zakim]
- -??P9
- 21:01:27 [Zakim]
- -MarkB
- 21:01:29 [Zakim]
- -??P8
- 21:01:31 [Zakim]
- -Frank
- 21:01:32 [Zakim]
- -Mnot
- 21:01:47 [frankmcca]
- I will email this out shortly
- 21:01:52 [Zakim]
- -Hugo
- 21:01:54 [Zakim]
- - +1.650.875.aabb
- 21:01:55 [Zakim]
- -DavidB
- 21:01:56 [Zakim]
- -Roger
- 21:01:57 [Zakim]
- -??P32
- 21:01:58 [Zakim]
- -Dave_Hollander
- 21:01:59 [Zakim]
- WS_ArchWG()3:30PM has ended
- 21:02:11 [chrisf]
- zakim, please excuse us
- 21:02:12 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #ws-arch
- 21:02:22 [chrisf]
- rrsagent, please excuse us
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- I see 10 open action items:
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: chairs to add RM and Management as sub-topic of during the architecture document session [1]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-16-43
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Roger to restrucutre AC017 to capture RM but drop other items [2]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-16-54
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Hao to republish WSDL harvesting message URIs [3]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-17-44
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: daveH to provide top down text [4]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-20-57
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: all comments to proposed charter asap [5]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-26-20
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: workshop discussion on choreography in f2f agenda [6]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-33-31
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: all anyone willing to edit glossary, please contact editors. [7]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-41-56
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: all, read the WSCI doc. [8]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-57-15
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: chairs to add wsci doc to f2f reading list [9]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T20-59-09
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: daveB will secure 5 dial in lines [10]
- 21:02:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/08/29-ws-arch-irc#T21-00-44