WSAWG Telcon 18 July 2002

Agenda, Attendance, Action Items, IRC log
Scribe:  Krishna Sankar

Pending Action Items:

1,2,3 - Done
4 same as 3
5,6,7,8 – Done


Use case document sent out
Requirements: defer till next call
Glossary: Alan will send out by COB Monday

5. WG document publishing schedule (15.50 + 10)

Architecture Doc: Discussion followed.
Hugo proposed that we deliver a draft next week. We are already late by 1.5 months. If we wait till after August, we would be late by more than 4 months. It would be good to have a starting point, no need for consensus, but a good view of the current thought.

Mark : Currently it is more or less a TOC

Dave H : It will focus the group with something in paper

Dave Orchard : Against publishing – reason doesn’t have sufficient tech content to ask the W3C community to review

Frank: Couple of issues. Only finite number of times something is read. If it is completely wrong or not even close to near completion, audience may be turned-off. Understands TTM, but it is premature to publish anything now.

Zula: We didn't have enough discussion on architecture and it doesn't make sense to publish anything when there isn't enough in the document (No offense to editors.)

Daniel A: +1 to delaying the publishing of architecture document for the above reasons.

Mike: Need to identify real issues. As and editor, he is willing to put more time
but inappropriate to  publish now. Need to rationalize REST vs SOAP.

Dav O.: Has only 1 day in next few days to work on the document as an editor. The current document only captures something that the editors talked about. The WG needs to have discussions on this and hence delay publication. Too little time to publish.

David B.: Prefers inclusion of controversial issues in the first draft for a broader input from the larger community. Disagrees that the we didn't have enough discussions on the architecture. We didn't have enough discussions on the architecture document. The discussion on the arch doc will help the WG focus better.

Heather: Prefers to be late than being incomplete or imprecise.

Dave H.: Lot of risks on both sides, though slightly prefers early publication.

Chris F: Let me conduct a straw poll. 15 favor delaying publication while 4 favor early publication. So we will delay the publication.

Chris F: What about the publication of Use-Cases document? No objection from WG so we will proceed with its publication.

Hugo: Emphasizes that the missing timeline is not good as there are concerns outside that
W3C is not moving fast enough.

6. Review of Mike's proposal for D-AG005

Chris F: Mike C. has put together a list and there were emAIL discussions. These are attachments 4 and 5.

Mike C.: Mark Baker has proposed some wording similar to that WSA should be "neutral with respect to transport and application level protocols". His wordings are that it must support multiple protocols.
Mike thinks that they are same and he is fine with either.

Chris F: Accept or reject?

Hao: Multiple protocols is unclear.

Frank: Multiple protocols and being neutral are two different things. Can we do a formal vote assuming that Mark B.'s response?

Chris F.: No.

Mike: Separate design time aspects from run-time aspects. There were a few yeses, a few dissents, and 1 wants to discuss. Dave H. thinks it is out-of-scope.

Chris F: Let us resolve this offline. Discuss 3.3. Can we go with as written?
Hugo: Fairly obscure to him and would be happier w/o it than with it.

D-AC002.1 : rework (Chris ?)

3.6 withdrawn
3.3 – rework i.e. propose different wording

AC002.1.2 -> approved
2.1.3 -> remove
2.2 ->

Discussion on the granularity of CSF.

Daniel : Top level high level goals, then break down the CSFs. So consolidating CSFs might not be a good idea.

Daniel to consider all the feedback on 2.2 and 2.3 and rework.

7. Review of Zulah's proposals for D-AG006

AC0008 .2 removed
8.5 removed
8.6 approved

ac012.4 removed
2.7 adopted

ac015 : all removed (Chris ?)

Final discussions:

    The discussions were around working in August on the document even though August is a vacation month.
The group concluded that we will keep the con calls, unofficial (i.e. won’t count towards participation), but minutes would be kept for all to know.

The activity would be to “take the document up a few notches”, add material from what the harvest group has done so far, et al. No substantial voting would be done. Any voting would still require more than a week notice after the vacation.



RESOLVED: D-AR003.1 accepted: separates the transport of data or means of access to Web Services from the Web Services themselves.
RESOLVED: D-AC002 accepted as Mike has proposed
RESOLVED: D-AC002.1 accepted Mike's proposal
RESOLVED: D-AC002.1.2 accepted Mike's proposed text
RESOLVED: remove D-AC002.1.3
RESOLVED: remove D-AC008.2
RESOLVED: remove D-AC008.5
RESOLVED: remove D-AC008.6
RESOLVED: D-AR012.4 removed
RESOLVED: D-AC012.7 accepted, remove draft status
RESOLVED: remove 15.1-7 as Zulah has proposed

Action Items:

ACTION: DaveH to rework D-AR003.3 [1]
recorded in
ACTION: Daniel to propose revised D-AC002.2 and sub-csfs/req'ts for next week's call [2]
recorded in



AT&T    Mark Jones
AT&T    Steve Monetti (alt)
BEA Systems    David Orchard
Boeing Company    Gerald Edgar
Cisco Systems Inc    Sandeep Kumar
Cisco Systems Inc    Krishna Sankar
Computer Associates    Igor Sedukhin
Contivo    Dave Hollander
DaimlerChrysler Research    Hans-Peter Steiert
DISA    Marcel Jemio
France Telecom    Shishir Garg
Fujitsu    Frank McCabe
Hewlett-Packard Company    Yin-Leng Husband
Hewlett-Packard Company    Zulah Eckert
IBM    Chris Ferris
IBM    Heather Kreger
IONA    Eric Newcomer
MartSoft Corp.    Jun Chen
MITRE Corporation    James Davenport
MITRE Corporation    Paul Denning
Progress    Colleen Evans
Rogue Wave Software    Jim Shur
SeeBeyond Technology Corp    Ugo Corda
Software AG    Michael Champion
Sybase, Inc.    Himagiri Mukkamala
Systinet    Anne Thomas Manes
The Thomson Corporation    Hao He
W. W. Grainger, Inc.    Tom Carroll
W. W. Grainger, Inc.    Daniel Austin
W3C    Hugo Haas
W3C    David Booth


AT&T    Ayse Dilber
Carnegie Mellon University    Katia Sycara
ChevronTexaco    Roger Cutler
CrossWeave, Inc.    Timothy Jones
EDS    Mike Ballantyne
Ericsson    Nilo Mitra
Exodus/Digital Island    Joseph Hui
Idokorro Mobile    Mark Baker
Intel Corporation    Sharad Garg
Intel Corporation    Joel Munter
Ipedo    Srinivas Pandrangi
Microsoft Corporation    Henrik Nielsen
Nokia    Michael Mahan
Nortel Networks    Abbie Barbir
Oracle Corporation    Martin Chapman
Oracle Corporation    Jeff Mischkinsky
SAP    Sinisa Zimek
SeeBeyond Technology Corp    Alan Davies
Sterling Commerce(SBC)    Suresh Damodaran
Sun Microsystems, Inc.    Doug Bunting
Sun Microsystems, Inc.    Mark Hapner
TIBCO Software, Inc.    Scott Vorthmann
T-Nova Deutsche Telekom    Jens Meinkoehn
webMethods, Inc.    Prasad Yendluri


Apple    Mike Brumbelow
Artesia Technologies    Dipto Chakravarty
DaimlerChrysler Research    Mario Jeckle
Documentum    Don Robertson
EDS    Waqar Sadiq
IBM    Jim Knutson
Intalio Inc    Bob Lojek
IONA    Steve Vinoski
Ipedo    Alex Cheng
Macromedia    Glen Daniels
Macromedia    Tom Jordahl
MartSoft Corp.    Jin Yu
Microsoft Corporation    Allen Brown
OASIS    Hal Lockhart
Software AG    Nigel Hutchison
VeriSign, Inc.    Michael Mealling
Waveset Technologies    Darran Rolls
XQRL Inc.    Tom Bradford
XQRL Inc.    Daniela Florescu