Web Services Architecture Working Group
14-Mar-2002 meeting minutes

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Mike Brumbelow
Ayse Dilber
Mark Jones
BEA Systems
David Orchard
Roger Cutler
Cisco Systems Inc
Sandeep Kumar
Yin-Leng Husband
Kevin Perkins
CrossWeave, Inc.
Timothy Jones
DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
Mario Jeckle
Digital Island
Joseph Hui
Marcel Jemio
Waqar Sadiq
France Telecom
Shishir Garg
Hewlett-Packard Company
Zulah Eckert
Heather Kreger
Intel Corporation
Sharad Garg
Intel Corporation
Joel Munter
Steve Vinoski
Glen Daniels
Tom Jordahl
Microsoft Corporation
Allen Brown
Microsoft Corporation
Henrik Nielsen
MITRE Corporation
James Davenport
Michael Mahan
Nortel Networks
Abbie Barbir
Oracle Corporation
Jeff Mischkinsky
Planetfred, Inc.
Mark Baker
SeeBeyond Technology Corp
Alan Davies
Software AG
Michael Champion
Sterling Commerce(SBC)
Suresh Damodaran
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Doug Bunting
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Chris Ferris
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Mark Hapner
Sybase, Inc.
Himagiri Mukkamala
Anne Thomas Manes
The Boeing Company
Gerald Edgar
The Thomson Corporation
Hao He
W. W. Grainger, Inc.
Tom Carroll
Hugo Haas
webMethods, Inc.
Prasad Yendluri


Cisco Systems Inc
Krishna Sankar
Don Robertson
Nilo Mitra
Hewlett-Packard Company
Dorothea Beringer
Intalio Inc
Bob Lojek
Eric Newcomer
Sinisa Zimek
W. W. Grainger, Inc.
Daniel Austin


Artesia Technologies
Dipto Chakravarty
Carnegie Mellon University
Katia Sycara
Computer Associates
Igor Sedukhin
Dave Hollander
DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
Hans-Peter Steiert
Mike Ballantyne
Jim Knutson
Alex Cheng
Srinivas Pandrangi
MITRE Corporation
Paul Denning
Software AG
Nigel Hutchison
T-Nova Deutsche Telekom Innovationsgesellschaft
Jens Meinkoehn
VeriSign, Inc.
Michael Mealling
Waveset Technologies
Darran Rolls
Tom Bradford
Daniela Florescu


See agenda posted by the Chair.

Detailed minutes

1. Roll call, scribes for minutes/action items

2. Agenda review, and AOB

3. Approval of February 7 March telcon minutes

4. Review of outstanding action items

5. Status

-          F2F planning update remote telcon facilities will be provided, need to register regrets, 20 rooms at Sheraton in Milpitas (1 mile from cisco) reserved by Cisco - call Sheraton after 7pm and mention cisco rate $135 until 3/29 - sandeep will post details - shuttles to cisco available - joint dinner/lunch with wsd in planning - agenda out before next week's call

      - WS-CG report meeting this week - xml cg laision, daml laision http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-cg/2002Mar/0014.html - possible next f2f in paris (wsd being hosted by canon), visa, nortel offers to host

-          Editing team report

Provide pre-f2f draft of req doc - snapshot before next week's call (i.e., 2 updates before f2f)


6. Report from OMG Web Services Workshop


tutorials, pres of technologies, biz coordination, security, lots of diff things, ontologies

omg focus on uml mappings to w/s

talked to global grid forum - try to get invited expert

talked to oasis, daml-s


Hugo will provide the WG with a report on the OMG ... conference

he attended last week.


7. Liaison with DAML Services initiative


As per our charter[4] have invited an expert from the DAML Services

initiative[5] to join our WG. She will serve as liaison with that activity.



8. Review summary goals and objectives


Some great email discussion has followed last week's con-call.

Many thanks to the goal champion's for focusing the discussion.

We'll spend a couple minutes on each with the respective champion

presenting a summary of their summary email. We can hopefully

come to consensus on the intent of each at least. Summary emails

are cited for each. I'll determine the order that they'll

be addressed so as to focus on getting as many completed as



DAG0001a Daniel Austin [6]

DAG0002 Daniel Austin [7]

DAG0003 Nilo Mitra [8] (regrets)

DAG0004 Abbie Barbir [9]

Raised questions on web components - are they well defined?

Relationship w/ #11

Don't know how to measure - need def. For web components

Abbie will send alt. wording

DAG0005 Mike Champion [10]

Simplicity - not much disc

Comment: point of simplicity is interoperability, use io as measure of simp - but how to do that?

Sent out alt wording

Henrik - simplicy reqs impossible to evaluate (xmlp), suggest think about kind of things to bring simp into design: modularity, composition

Roger - keep small description, break out with numbered subparts rather than roll up into larger description

Chris - need to clarify which goals apply to which actors

Suresh - use simpliest language, no circular references

mike - minimalism (smallest possible number of components) - burden of proof on those wanting more

tomc - original goal at proper level of abstraction, numbered items are 1st level csf

chris - make sure arch is simple, not w/s Suresh - uncomfortable leaving goal as-is - merging arch and subject

Chris will propose alt.

DAG0006 Joe Hui [11]

Comment - Goal is too broad

Replacement suggested, doesn't really narrow goal

Original wording stands

Suresh - "addresses" ambiguous, suggest "supports"; propose "heterogeneous" environments rather than "distributed"; can't secure everything in w/s environment

No one opposed to current language

"Addresses" is superset of "supports"

no one feels necessary overlap w/ #11

goal stands

DAG0007 Suresh Damodaran [12]

Statement refs. To arch, not w/s

Split into three parts: reliable, stable, predictable

not much feedback

roger - don't understand goal, need to see CSFs

csfs are at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0148.html

sandeep - behavior should persist over time?

Need to noodle more

DAG0008 Tim Jones [13]

DAG0009 Mark Baker [14]

DAG0010 Dave Orchard [15] (regrets)

DAG0011 Mike Mahan [16]

DAG0013 Hugo Haas [17]

DAG0014 Doug Bunting [18]

DAG0015 Dave Orchard [19] (regrets)

DAG0016 Yin-Ling Husband [20]


DAG0001 and DAG0012 don't seem to have been kicked off so will

be deferred.


Chris - Missing goals - champions solicited


Roger to propose goal 17 for transactions/reliable msging

Hao - Management/monitoring (18)

Joe - someone should champion privacy


9. Wrap-up




[1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/admin#communication

[2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/03/07-minutes

[3] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/03/07-minutes#new-ai

[4] http://www.w3.org/2002/01/ws-arch-charter

[5] http://www.daml.org/services/

[6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0170.html

[7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0169.html

[8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0133.html

[9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0197.html

[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0236.html

[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0233.html

[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0237.html

[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0185.html

[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0242.html

[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0179.html

[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0246.html

[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0208.html

[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0227.html

[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0172.html

[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Mar/0235.html

Summary of new action items

See also the list of pending action items.

Chair: Chris Ferris <chris.ferris@sun.com>
Scribe: Timothy N. Jones <tim@crossweave.com>