IRC log of ws-paris on 2002-06-12

[hugo]

hugo has changed the topic to: WSAWG & WSDWG joint face-to-face meeting

[plh-paris]

who is taking minutes?

[hugo]

IRC log at: http://www.w3.org/2002/06/12-ws-paris-irc

[mikem]

WSA comments to WSD requirements: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-arch/2002May/0227.html

[hugo]

Gudge, can you close the roof? apparently, you are next to the buttons

please, pretty please

[jjm]

hugo, u not tried http://www.lechangeur.com/room24/services.wsdl ?

[soliton]

is chris's presentation on a URL?

[hugo]

yes, it said to talk to Gudge

[jjm]

gudge.wsdl?

;-)

[hugo]

Travel agent stuff: http://www.w3.org/2002/06/ws-example

EDI use case: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002May/att-0323/02-WS-EDI_Use_Case.htm

[jjm]

LOL

btw, i thought output only operations had been deprecated as of yesterday

;-)

[jeffsch]

always the comedian :-)

[plh-paris]

Jonathan's presentation: http://www.w3.org/2002/06/WSDupdate.html

[jjm]

hi chris

[chris]

hey:)

[jjm]

u quiet today

[hugo]

chris, is your presentation on the Web?

[chris]

not yet, will upload after I slurp my email

[plh-paris]

chris: can you resend your message regarding comments from arch to desc to www-ws-desc?

[jjm]

+1

[chris]

yup, will do

can I just send the all.htm and you build the slides? rather than I upload 11 slides...

[hugo]

chris, sure

chris, actually, I guess that the all.htm should be enough

[chris]

uri for Chris's presentation at joint session: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/06/wsawg-1000ft-jun2002.html

sent email re: WSAWG f/b on WSD Requirements doc to w3c-ws-desc list

[hugo]

I have updated my travel agent usage^H^H^He case already to have the correct title

[chris]

let it be recorded, this day, june 12, 2002 ad that the joint meeting of the WSD and WSA WGs has chosen the term "Use Case" to mean the high-level story thingy and "Usage Scenario" as the lower-level thingy

[MChapman]

wots a thingy?

[jjm]

your output buffer full?

[jeffm]

That's what happens when a 1 element push down stack gets pushed too hard

[plh-paris]

chris: why w3c-ws-desc instead of www-ws-desc?

[chris]

plh-paris: actually sent to both lists

oops, actually, I meant sent to both member lists. didn't send to www-ws-desc but will gladly do

so if that is what people want

[plh-paris]

well, that's the way the desc group works at least.

[jeffm]

and the crowd roars ....

[chris]

okay then

[dbooth]

I was wondering who is scribe this morning.

[chris]

I guess it has kind of been me...

[dbooth]

Thanks Chris!

[chris]

done

(sent to www-ws-desc I mean)

hey heather...

we're figuring out how to do this

[dbooth]

Phone: Alternate Phone Numbers

33-13930-7501

[chris]

dialing...

[plh-paris]

chris: I "forwarded" the message from w3t-arch in www-ws-desc.

[dbooth]

Passcode: 938462 and then press #

[chris]

heather, u there?

we're on the call

[dbooth]

Heather, the phone should be active now.

[Heather]

hi t

[chris]

yooohooo...

[dbooth]

Heather, we cannot hear you.

[chris]

this is not a good sign...

[Heather]

can you hear me saying hello?

[soliton]

no

[plh-paris]

we're calling back :-]

[tjordahl]

yes, we could

[soliton]

redialing

[Heather]

i can't hear you either...

[dbooth]

Heather, we are dialing again.

[soliton]

hi, heather, this is Hao

[chris]

say something

nevermind...

[Heather]

i said hello

[plh-paris]

oops (again)

[Heather]

is someone taking minutes into IRC so I can follow the discussion?

[Gudge]

we can just about hear you

[dbooth]

Heather, we're on the phone again now.

Can you hear us?

[chris]

yeah, okay

you want to lurk? I'll try to keep the jist of the discussion

[Heather]

yes, that would be great

[chris]

generated document format for use cases, seems to be acceptable

[Heather]

do you have a scribe?

[Gudge]

it's chris ;-)

[scribe]

davidb: suggests use of CVS for repository

daniel: you didn't mention that

daveo: ahhh, but that's what we were thinking

daniel: didn't want this all scattered all over the place

jon: yeah, but they have URIs and are on the web...

daniel:what about other wg's in the activity, have they signed up?

[Heather]

CVS for document repository?

[scribe]

chris: xmlp is just publishing their work as a note, then they're done

daveo: just a question of whether we want to do that or not

[Gudge]

Yes, CVS for doc repos

[scribe]

daniel: same thread, are we thinking about relationship with WS-I?

jeff: yes

chris: let's not go there...

jeff: talking about org to org not productive, rather about wg to wg

jon: if we're done, let's move on

daveo: want to bring up issue

daveo: currently there are architectural extensions that drive requirements, that i put in place in doc for wsawg ease of use, is this okay?

daniel: to be consistent, separate it out, but suggest you leave in

daveo: okay

jon: question about ws-i and what we do at wg level.

jon: wsdwg relationship is: we have deliverables and we put them out for public review, we ask specific wgs and other groups to review. we can and should notify WS-I about document we want reviewed. we have public comments list and process in place to get our docs to ws-i.

jon: from other side, presumably they'll have feedback alias that we can send f/b to... just need commitment to review their stuff (when made public)

chris: same warm bodies fill the wgs from both orgs

jeffm: agree, but would be nice to know that coordination is happening

[Heather]

I don't think its enough to have an informal stealth collaboration

[scribe]

chris: w3c work is public domain

daveo: difference in schedules and deliverables of 2 groups

[Heather]

It will work better if someONE knows they are responsible for keeping up with both groups and coordinating

and feeding back potential conflicts and differences

and the rest of the group knows who to go to

[kevinL]

agreed, some dedicated contacts from both group will really help

[Heather]

I would volunteer

[scribe]

yeah!

[jeffm]

the chair of the wsi basic profile is on WSD

the editor of the wsi scenarios doc is on the WSA

[plh-paris]

jeff: not for a long time

(for the chair of wsi basic profile)

[jeffm]

oops, you're right

[Heather]

Yes, there is lots of informal cross polinization and thats a 'good thing'

[jeffm]

I am not in favor of appointing "liason" people at this point

[Heather]

but for scenarios at least, there should be someone both sides can go to who is actively looking for collaborations and issues

Jeff: Why?

[scribe]

reolved for wsd: commit to review relevant deliverables of WS-I and notify them when we ship deliverable

s/reolved/resolved/

[Heather]

Is wsarch's scenario group going to have a closer relationship?

[scribe]

resolved for wsa: commit to review relevant deliverables of WS-I and notify them when we ship deliverable. will also assign Heather K and Martin C as contact points for coordination questions between WSAWG and WS-I use cases team

[Heather]

ok

[scribe]

roger: what about ebXML people... there was some traffic and there may be a problem there

jon: its in our charter

add a note to 3.2 in arch requirements...

don't want to go there, need ac review to change charter

daveo: fact that it isnt in charter, we can interpret to extend in that regard

jon: calls for objections to wsd resolution?

hugo: commit kind of scares me...

<some suggest that hugo is afraid of commitment:)>

hugo: what is the level of "commitment" when faced with review of W3C LC doc and review of WS-I doc, eg.

jon: thinks it is basically the same...

jon: we commit to notice:)

jon: recalls the question on the objections?

<none>

jon: recalls question of resolution for wsa...

<no objections>

both motions pass

jon: reviews review of requirements feedback, essentially, all points of possible overlap or misalignment identified by MikeM are in alignment w/r/t current drafts of respective requirements docs

<some administrivia about which group goes where after lunch>

adjourned

[Heather]

are we going to try to fix the phone now? or at the end of the lunch break?

[scribe]

after lunch I think...

[Heather]

when whould I dial in?

[chris]

when you notice the irc traffic picking up?

I would think about 75 mins from now or so...

[Heather]

ok... I'll watch for you

[chris]

go get some coffee:)

[Heather]

good, that'll give ME time to get breakfast!

[jjm]

s/ME/MEP/

;-)

[Roger]

Heather -- are you there?

Heather - we are about to start up again.

[GlenD]

My work here is done.

[jeffm]

where is gudge?

where's the "stuff"?

[Heather]

Heather's here

should I dial in?

[sanjiva]

u should prolly join ws-arch

[Gudge]

/leave

[Roger]

Heather, are you there?

Sorry, we don't have a phone here.

[Heather]

bummer

no phone just for this afternoon? or also the rest of the week?

[Roger]

You should probably go to ws-arch. I think the scribe will be there.

Uh, don't know. I suspect forever.

The phone situation here seems weird.

[Heather]

ok... see you there, leaving joint