16:45:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webont
16:46:14 <DanC> Zakim, agenda + 7Nov http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Nov/0073.html
16:46:15 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
16:52:02 <jhendler> jhendler has joined #webont
16:52:49 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: WebOnt 7Nov. scribe: LynnT. chair: Guus
16:52:54 <DanC> agenda?
16:53:50 <schreiber> schreiber has joined #WEBONT
16:55:11 <mdean> mdean has joined #webont
16:55:13 <DanC> hi guus.
16:56:00 <pfps> pfps has joined #webont
16:56:08 <DanC> good to see we've got several substantive reviews of the semantics draft... I hope we can get the reviewers to think about which of their comments they think are critical before 1st WD. I didn't see anything I'd regard as critical.
16:56:25 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
16:56:31 <Zakim> +??P26
16:57:54 <libby> libby has joined #webont
16:58:40 <Zakim> +[UMD]
16:58:42 <Zakim> + +33.4.76.61.aaaa
16:58:43 <Zakim> -??P26
16:58:43 <schreiber> yes, agree, i think we can publish
16:58:45 <Zakim> +??P26
16:58:46 <Zakim> +Peter_PS
16:58:53 <jhendler> hmm, that's new
16:58:59 <jhendler> zakim, UMD is hendler
16:59:00 <Zakim> sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named 'UMD'
16:59:11 <jhendler> zakim, [umd] is hendler
16:59:13 <Zakim> +Hendler; got it
16:59:15 <Zakim> +DanC
16:59:18 <schreiber> zakim, ??p26 is GuusS
16:59:19 <Zakim> +GuusS; got it
16:59:29 <Zakim> +??P33
16:59:48 <libby> zakim, ??P33 is LibbyM
16:59:49 <Zakim> +LibbyM; got it
16:59:59 <DanC> Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:00:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Peter_PS, Hendler, +33.4.76.61.aaaa, DanC, LibbyM
17:00:11 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
17:00:13 <Zakim> +Ian_Horrocks
17:00:19 <DanC> Zakim, aaa is Jerome
17:00:20 <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
17:00:29 <Zakim> +??P36
17:00:40 <Zakim> +LynnT
17:00:41 <IanH> IanH has joined #webont
17:00:50 <Zakim> +??P0
17:00:58 <DanC> Zakim, who is on the call?
17:00:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Peter_PS, Hendler, +33.4.76.61.aaaa, DanC, LibbyM, Ian_Horrocks, Mike_Dean, ??P36, LynnT, ??P0
17:01:07 <DanC> Zakim, ??P36 is MarwanS
17:01:08 <Zakim> +MarwanS; got it
17:01:13 <Zakim> +John_Stanton
17:01:14 <Zakim> +??P5
17:01:23 <DanC> Zakim, ??P5 is LarryE
17:01:24 <Zakim> +LarryE; got it
17:01:37 <DanC> Zakim, aaaa is JeromeE
17:01:38 <Zakim> +JeromeE; got it
17:01:40 <DanC> Zakim, who's talking
17:01:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's talking', DanC
17:01:42 <DanC> Zakim, who's talking?
17:01:55 <Zakim> DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LynnT (9%), DanC (34%), Ian_Horrocks (33%), MarwanS (14%)
17:02:06 <Zakim> +M_Smith
17:02:13 <baget> +33.4.76.61.aaaa is a common call fom J. Euzena and J.F. Baget (INRIA)
17:02:15 <Zakim> +??P20
17:02:24 <DanC> Zakim, ??P20 is JeffH
17:02:25 <Zakim> +JeffH; got it
17:02:45 <jhendler> zakim, aaaa is Euzenat
17:02:46 <Zakim> sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
17:02:46 <Zakim> +??P22
17:03:02 <DanC> Zakim, mute me
17:03:03 <Zakim> DanC should now be muted
17:03:07 <Zakim> +??P24
17:03:16 <Zakim> +??P28
17:03:43 <jhendler> zakim, 33.4.76.61.aaaa is euzenat
17:03:47 <Zakim> sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named '33.4.76.61.aaaa'
17:04:02 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
17:04:21 <hth> hth has joined #webont
17:04:59 <Zakim> +??P2
17:05:10 <JosD> JosD has joined #webont
17:05:13 <jjc> jjc has joined #webont
17:05:15 <Zakim> +??P3
17:05:31 <jhendler> zakim, who is here
17:05:32 <Zakim> jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'
17:05:34 <Zakim> +??P6
17:05:37 <jhendler> zakim, who is here?
17:05:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Peter_PS, Hendler, JeromeE, DanC (muted), LibbyM, Ian_Horrocks, Mike_Dean, MarwanS, LynnT, ??P0, John_Stanton, LarryE, M_Smith, JeffH, ??P22, ??P24,
17:05:41 <Zakim> ... ??P28, Evan_Wallace, ??P2, ??P3, ??P6
17:05:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see jjc, JosD, hth, IanH, libby, pfps, mdean, schreiber, jhendler, RRSAgent, Zakim, DanC, baget, logger
17:06:18 <Zakim> +PatH
17:07:22 <jhendler> zakim, pick a scribe
17:07:23 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #webont
17:07:23 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P2
17:07:47 <jhendler> zakim, pick a scribe
17:07:49 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Hendler
17:07:54 <jhendler> zakim, pick a scribe
17:07:55 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P24
17:08:17 <Zakim> +ChrisW
17:08:49 <jjc> Zakim, who is speaking?
17:08:52 <jhendler> zakim, mute DanC
17:08:54 <Zakim> DanC should now be muted
17:09:02 <Zakim> jjc, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P3 (3%), LynnT (58%), GuusS (58%), DanC (12%)
17:11:06 <DanC> hi speed net access is a big plus
17:11:31 <ChrisW> oxygen/nitrogen is fine for me
17:13:29 <jjc> Zakim, who is speaking?
17:13:41 <Zakim> jjc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LynnT (18%), ??P6 (9%), GuusS (48%), ??P28 (19%), JeromeE (4%), Hendler (10%), Peter_PS (35%), DanC (14%), MarwanS
17:13:44 <Zakim> ... (4%)
17:13:59 <jjc> Zakim, who is on the call?
17:14:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Peter_PS, Hendler, JeromeE, DanC, LibbyM, Ian_Horrocks, Mike_Dean, MarwanS, LynnT, ??P0, John_Stanton, LarryE, M_Smith, JeffH, ??P22, ??P24, ??P28,
17:14:02 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, ??P2 (muted), ??P3, ??P6, PatH, ChrisW
17:14:17 <jjc> Zakim, ??P2 is Jeremy.
17:14:19 <Zakim> +Jeremy.; got it
17:14:21 <schreiber> schreiber has joined #webont
17:14:30 <schreiber> zakim, who is here?
17:14:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Peter_PS, Hendler, JeromeE, DanC, LibbyM, Ian_Horrocks, Mike_Dean, MarwanS, LynnT, ??P0, John_Stanton, LarryE, M_Smith, JeffH, ??P22, ??P24, ??P28,
17:14:33 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, Jeremy. (muted), ??P3, ??P6, PatH, ChrisW
17:14:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see schreiber, ChrisW, jjc, JosD, hth, IanH, libby, pfps, mdean, jhendler, RRSAgent, Zakim, DanC, baget, logger
17:14:41 <jhendler> zakim, ??p3 is jos
17:14:43 <Zakim> +Jos; got it
17:15:46 <jhendler> q+
17:17:28 <jhendler> ack
17:17:43 <jhendler> q-
17:19:09 <DanC> PROPOSED: to publish the semantics document, per recent editors draft, with 2 instruction to the editor to add the "needs more work" per Herman, De Roo.
17:19:13 <jhendler> woohoo!!!!
17:19:20 <DanC> ... and subject to further editorial discretion.
17:19:22 <DanC> never mind.
17:23:16 <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Nov/0004.html
17:23:19 <jhendler> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Nov/0004.html
17:23:21 <DanC> From: Jeff Heflin <heflin@cse.lehigh.edu>
17:23:21 <DanC> To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfps@research.bell-labs.com>
17:23:21 <DanC> CC: www-webont-wg@w3.org
17:23:21 <DanC> Subject: Re: LANG: need to CLOSE Issue 5.6 Imports as magic syntax
17:23:41 <JosD> most recent proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Nov/0004.html
17:25:04 <jjc> q+
17:26:32 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #webont
17:28:36 <nmg> nmg has joined #webont
17:37:22 <DanC> Guus, Jim, do you hear anybody changing their position?
17:37:30 <ChrisW> zakim, who is here?
17:37:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Peter_PS, Hendler, JeromeE, DanC, LibbyM, Ian_Horrocks, Mike_Dean, MarwanS, LynnT, ??P0, John_Stanton, LarryE, M_Smith, JeffH, ??P22, ??P24, ??P28,
17:37:33 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, Jeremy., Jos, ??P6, PatH, ChrisW
17:37:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see nmg, ChrisW, schreiber, jjc, JosD, hth, IanH, libby, pfps, mdean, jhendler, RRSAgent, Zakim, DanC, baget, logger
17:38:07 <schreiber> no, there does not seem to be consensus
17:38:25 <ChrisW> q+
17:38:34 <DanC> I didn't ask if there's consensus; I asked if this dicussion is getting us anywhere; i.e. getting anybody to change their position.
17:39:03 <JosD> q+
17:39:44 <baget> q+
17:40:07 <baget> (on behalf of J. Euzenat)
17:40:23 <DanC> ack ChrisW
17:40:59 <DanC> ack Baget
17:41:35 <DanC> ack JosD
17:42:14 <DanC> jos, that sounds like proof/explanations.
17:42:29 <DanC> ack DanC
17:42:33 <jhendler> I'm beginning to like Tim's   " Foo: a owl:TrustedDocument"  better and better
17:43:26 <JosD> that's right Dan (I'm too biased)
17:44:51 <Massimo> Massimo has joined #webont
17:45:07 <Massimo> Apologies, previous meeting lasted overtime....
17:45:47 <Massimo> Zakim, what is the passcode?
17:45:48 <Zakim> the conference code is 9326, Massimo
17:46:15 <Zakim> +Massimo
17:46:32 <DanC> Massimo, FYI, I've talked with the other SWAD guys on imports; I'm not just speaking on my own behalf. So please don't contradict me without checking with them.
17:56:35 <ChrisW> Do datatypes complicate this?
17:58:36 <schreiber> zakim, who is here?
17:58:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Peter_PS, Hendler, JeromeE, DanC, LibbyM, Ian_Horrocks, Mike_Dean, MarwanS, LynnT, ??P0, John_Stanton, LarryE, M_Smith, JeffH, ??P22, ??P24, ??P28,
17:58:39 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, Jeremy., Jos, ??P6, PatH, ChrisW, Massimo
17:58:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see Massimo, nmg, ChrisW, schreiber, jjc, JosD, hth, IanH, libby, pfps, mdean, jhendler, RRSAgent, Zakim, DanC, baget, logger
18:02:24 <JosD> q+
18:04:15 <schreiber> ack JosD
18:06:58 <Zakim> -ChrisW
18:07:35 <ChrisW> i tried to abstain and hung up instead...
18:08:21 <Zakim> +ChrisW
18:08:28 <jhendler> proposal: we will have owl:  sameClassAs, samePropertyAs, SameIndividualAs and SameAs which is a synonym for sameIndividualAs
18:09:28 <jhendler> The ref/guide documents will include a note that owl:sameAs is typically used when it is not known whether the types are the same
18:09:29 <Massimo> I morally support the abstain's, so to say ;)
18:12:49 <Zakim> -ChrisW
18:13:20 <libby> I think chrisw might have tried to abstain again ;)
18:13:20 <Zakim> +ChrisW
18:14:03 <ChrisW> I'm on a different phone whose mute button is in a different place...
18:14:35 <Zakim> -??P22
18:14:39 <ChrisW> whats the issue?
18:16:12 <schreiber> issue = 5.9
18:18:59 <DanC> guus, I'm asking to thru remaining *actions*, not issues.
18:24:41 <ChrisW> Document title: "A Tale of Three Languages"
18:25:27 <DanC> write up your current status, jim? what do you mean by that? please let's not have an account of status of issues *separate* from meeting records, meeting agendas, and the issues list.
18:27:47 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/guide-src/Guide.html#DesignForUse
18:30:18 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
18:30:20 <Zakim> -LarryE
18:30:20 <Zakim> -M_Smith
18:30:20 <Zakim> -MarwanS
18:30:21 <Zakim> -??P28
18:30:22 <Zakim> -LibbyM
18:30:23 <Zakim> -Jos
18:30:24 <Zakim> -Peter_PS
18:30:25 <Zakim> -??P24
18:30:28 <Zakim> -ChrisW
18:30:29 <Zakim> -??P6
18:30:31 <Zakim> -LynnT
18:30:33 <Zakim> -JeffH
18:30:35 <Zakim> -JeromeE
18:30:37 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks
18:30:40 <Zakim> -??P0
18:30:41 <Zakim> -Jeremy.
18:30:44 <Zakim> -PatH
18:30:47 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
18:30:48 <Zakim> -Massimo
18:42:28 <Zakim> -GuusS
18:42:28 <Zakim> -Hendler
18:42:33 <Zakim> -John_Stanton
18:42:37 <Zakim> -DanC
18:42:37 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
18:44:16 <ChrisW> ChrisW has left #webont
18:52:56 <Massimo> Massimo has left #webont
18:58:48 <DanC> RRSAgent, pointer?
18:58:48 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2002/11/07-webont-irc#T18-58-48
20:06:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webont
20:19:31 <DanC> DanC has left #webont