W3C WBS Home

Results of Questionnaire ISSUE-128: Authors should be able to use <figure> where <img> can be used - Straw Poll for Objections

The results of this questionnaire are available to anybody.

This questionnaire was open from 2010-12-01 to 2010-12-08.

3 answers have been received.

Jump to results for question:

  1. Objections to the Change Proposal to Allow figure where img is allowed, in p in particular
  2. Objections to the Change Proposal to Treat figure as being equivalent to p or aside

1. Objections to the Change Proposal to Allow figure where img is allowed, in p in particular

We have a Change Proposal to allow <figure> where <img> is allowed, in <p> in particular. If you have strong objections to adopting this Change Proposal, please state your objections below.

Keep in mind, you must actually state an objection, not merely cite someone else. If you feel that your objection has already been adequately addressed by someone else, then it is not necessary to repeat it.

Details

Responder Objections to the Change Proposal to Allow figure where img is allowed, in p in particular
Doug Jones Semantically, a figure is a unique part of a document. Although a figure may be closely tied to associated text to reflect information or meaning, a figure is not part of that text.

As with many changes in HTML5, the <figure> element as currently defined encourages better authoring habits. It should not be changed to support poorer authoring choices of the past, as this Change Proposal implies.

In practice, a figure would most likely have associated presentation rules for its placement on a page to enhance readability.
Ian Hickson * The premise that a <figure> should on principle be allowed anywhere that an <img> is useful is flawed. Images have many uses beyond being used in
figures. For example, images can be used in sentences to represent symbols that are not available in Unicode. Such images are not figures, and it would be nonsensical to replace them with figures. Therefore the entire premise that this change proposal is based on is incorrect, which invalidates the rest of its argument.

* IMHO it is not intuitive to have to close a paragraph before a figure. Authors will expect to be able to replace <div class="figure"> with <figure>, and thus <figure> should have similar parsing rules.

* Putting a table in a paragraph makes no sense -- putting a table in a figure in a paragraph equally makes no sense. The Acid2 damage was the introduction of a quirk; the standards-mode behaviour is still the right behaviour, though, and the ideal situation would be to get rid of the quirk, not get rid of the standards-mode behaviour.

* Allowing <p><figure><pre> might lead to people abusing <figure> for its parsing rules (much like the proposal suggests doing with <object>!) in cases where authors are attempting to abuse HTML for purely presentational effects.

Henri, the writer of this proposal, admits that this entire proposal is only being proposed because of what he perceives as limitations of CSS, and that on semantic grounds, <figure> should work as currently specified. However, as the other change proposal demonstrates, these CSS limitations do not in fact exist. CSS is quite capable of obtaining Henri's desired renderings. Even if this were not true, designing one part of the Web platform around limitations of another part of the Web platform is a concrete example of the application of Conway's law. It's entirely the wrong way to solve the problem. If CSS has limitations, we should *fix them in CSS*, not in HTML.
Anne van Kesteren This proposal will only lead to confusion with cases such as <p><figure><table> versus <p><table> parsing in a woefully incompatible way. I do not think that is helpful.

2. Objections to the Change Proposal to Treat figure as being equivalent to p or aside

We have a Change Proposal to Treat <figure> as being equivalent to <p> or <aside>. If you have strong objections to adopting this Change Proposal, please state your objections below.

Keep in mind, you must actually state an objection, not merely cite someone else. If you feel that your objection has already been adequately addressed by someone else, then it is not necessary to repeat it.

Details

Responder Objections to the Change Proposal to Treat figure as being equivalent to p or aside
Doug Jones
Ian Hickson
Anne van Kesteren

More details on responses

Non-responders

The following persons have not answered the questionnaire:

  1. Tantek Çelik <tantek@cs.stanford.edu>
  2. Patrick D F Ion <ion@ams.org>
  3. Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>
  4. Liam Quin <liam@w3.org>
  5. Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
  6. Chris Wilson <cwilso@google.com>
  7. David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk>
  8. James Helman <jhelman@movielabs.com>
  9. Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
  10. Chris Marrin <cmarrin@apple.com>
  11. Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
  12. Philippe Le Hégaret <plh@w3.org>
  13. Don Brutzman <brutzman@nps.edu>
  14. T.V. Raman <raman@google.com>
  15. David Singer <singer@apple.com>
  16. Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
  17. Karl Dubost <karl@la-grange.net>
  18. Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
  19. Lisa Seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>
  20. Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
  21. Wu Chou <wu.chou@huawei.com>
  22. Katsuhiko Momoi <momoi@google.com>
  23. Kangchan Lee <chan@w3.org>
  24. Roy Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com>
  25. Johnny Stenback <jst@mozilla.com>
  26. Deborah Dahl <dahl@conversational-technologies.com>
  27. Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
  28. Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
  29. Jonathan Jeon <hollobit@etri.re.kr>
  30. David Hyatt <hyatt@apple.com>
  31. WonSuk Lee <wonsuk.lee@etri.re.kr>
  32. Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
  33. Robert Accettura <robert@accettura.com>
  34. Jonathan Watt <jwatt@jwatt.org>
  35. Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
  36. Emmanuelle Gutiérrez y Restrepo <emmanuelle@sidar.org>
  37. Patrick Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
  38. David MacDonald <David100@sympatico.ca>
  39. Jack Jansen <jack@cwi.nl>
  40. Kazuhito Kidachi <k-kidachi@mitsue.co.jp>
  41. Markku Hakkinen <mhakkinen@ets.org>
  42. Cyril Concolato <cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr>
  43. Jens Meiert <jens@meiert.com>
  44. Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
  45. Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
  46. Tomas Caspers <tomas@tomascaspers.de>
  47. Han Xu <collin@w3china.org>
  48. Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
  49. Mark Crawford <mark.crawford@sap.com>
  50. Preety Kumar <preety.kumar@deque.com>
  51. Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
  52. Ian Fette <ifette@google.com>
  53. Michael[tm] Smith <mike@w3.org>
  54. Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
  55. Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
  56. Stefan Schnabel <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
  57. Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz>
  58. Travis Leithead <Travis.Leithead@microsoft.com>
  59. Youngsun Ryu <ysryu@samsung.com>
  60. Sierk Bornemann <sierkb@gmail.com>
  61. Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>
  62. James Graham <james@hoppipolla.co.uk>
  63. Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@hsivonen.fi>
  64. Krijn Hoetmer <w3c@qontent.nl>
  65. Channy Yun <channy@gmail.com>
  66. Shane Thacker <shanethacker@gmail.com>
  67. Vilem Malek <murphy@malek.cz>
  68. Zhihong Mao <zhihong.mao@gmail.com>
  69. Benoit Piette <benoit.piette@gmail.com>
  70. Erik van Kempen <erikvankempen@gmail.com>
  71. Dimitri Glazkov <dglazkov@google.com>
  72. Nick Fitzsimons <w3@nickfitz.co.uk>
  73. Josh Lawton <w3c@joshlawton.com>
  74. Adele Peterson <adele@apple.com>
  75. S Emerson <w3c@accretewebsolutions.ca>
  76. Morten Tollefsen <morten@medialt.no>
  77. Daniel Schattenkirchner <schattenkirchner.daniel@gmx.de>
  78. Theresa O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>
  79. Justin Anthony Knapp <justinkoavf@gmail.com>
  80. Simon Myers <Smylers@stripey.com>
  81. Samuel Weinig <weinig@apple.com>
  82. Alexey Proskuryakov <ap@webkit.org>
  83. Alejandro Fernandez <alejandro@mediadvanced.com>
  84. Marc Drumm <mdrumm@wcupa.edu>
  85. Danny Liang <danny.glue@gmail.com>
  86. Michael Puls II <shadow2531@gmail.com>
  87. Ron Reisor <ron@udel.edu>
  88. Marat Tanalin <mtanalin@yandex.ru>
  89. Andrew Norman <idonothaveacat@gmail.com>
  90. Craig Buckler <craigbuckler@gmail.com>
  91. Matthew Turvey <mcturvey@gmail.com>
  92. Dale Hudjik <dale.hudjik@gmail.com>
  93. James Cassell <w3c@cyberpear.com>
  94. Joseph D'Andrea <jdandrea@gmail.com>
  95. Eric Carlson <eric.carlson@apple.com>
  96. Michael Turnwall <w3c@turnwall.net>
  97. Don Kiely <donkiely@computer.org>
  98. David Child <dave@addedbytes.com>
  99. Mark DuBois <Mark@webprofessionals.org>
  100. David Bills <w3@dfbills.com>
  101. Nik Thierry <me@thisemail.ca>
  102. Andrew Ramsden <andrew@irama.org>
  103. John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
  104. Shefik Macauley <allknightaccess@gmail.com>
  105. Joe Steele <steele@adobe.com>
  106. John Vernaleo <john@netpurgatory.com>
  107. Jeremy Keith <jeremy@adactio.com>
  108. Jedi Lin <JediLin@Gmail.com>
  109. Jon Hughes <jon@phazm.com>
  110. Samuel Santos <samaxes@gmail.com>
  111. Dean Jackson <dino@apple.com>
  112. Mohammed DADAS <mohammed.dadas@orange.com>
  113. Sally Cain <sally.cain@rnib.org.uk>
  114. Dan Romascanu <dromasca@avaya.com>
  115. David Bolter <dbolter@mozilla.com>
  116. James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
  117. MING JIN <ming.jin.web@gmail.com>
  118. Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
  119. Adrian Bateman <adrianba@microsoft.com>
  120. Dionysios Synodinos <synodinos@gmail.com>
  121. Jean-Pierre EVAIN <evain@ebu.ch>
  122. Mark Pilgrim <pilgrim@google.com>
  123. Matt Lee <mattl@cnuk.org>
  124. Magnus Olsson <magnus.olsson@ericsson.com>
  125. Chris Pearce <cpearce@mozilla.com>
  126. Mark Miller <erights@google.com>
  127. Andrew Wilson <atwilson@google.com>
  128. Per-Erik Brodin <per-erik.brodin@ericsson.com>
  129. Ojan Vafai <ojan@chromium.org>
  130. Martin McEvoy <martin@weborganics.co.uk>
  131. Aryeh Gregor <ayg@aryeh.name>
  132. Jonathan Griffin <jgriffin@mozilla.com>
  133. Anders Bondehagen <anders@bondehagen.com>
  134. Steven Pemberton <Steven.Pemberton@cwi.nl>
  135. Raul Hudea <rhudea@adobe.com>
  136. Raghavan Gurumurthy <raghavan@adobe.com>
  137. Mayank Kumar <mayankk@adobe.com>
  138. Dragos Georgita <dgeorgit@adobe.com>
  139. Christopher Bank <cbank@adobe.com>
  140. Ole Riesenberg <or@oleriesenberg.com>
  141. Takuya Oikawa <takuya@google.com>
  142. Jatinder Mann <jmann@microsoft.com>
  143. Robert Stern <rstern@gmail.com>
  144. Eihab Ibrahim <eihabibrahim@gmail.com>
  145. Kensaku KOMATSU <kensaku.komatsu@gmail.com>
  146. Jer Noble <jer.noble@apple.com>
  147. Masatomo Kobayashi <mstm@jp.ibm.com>
  148. Peter Beverloo <beverloo@google.com>
  149. Andrew Scherkus <scherkus@google.com>
  150. Greg Johnson <greg.johnson@gmail.com>
  151. Martijn Croonen <martijn@martijnc.be>
  152. Stanley Manoski <manoski@mitre.org>
  153. Yosuke Funahashi <yosuke@w3.org>
  154. Mounir Lamouri <mlamouri@google.com>
  155. Tony Gentilcore <tonyg@google.com>
  156. Joseph Pecoraro <pecoraro@apple.com>
  157. Bob Lund <b.lund@cablelabs.com>
  158. Tatsuya Igarashi <Tatsuya.Igarashi@jp.sony.com>
  159. John Simmons <johnsim@microsoft.com>
  160. Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com>
  161. Clarke Stevens <c.stevens@cablelabs.com>
  162. Mark Vickers <mark_vickers@comcast.com>
  163. Sree Kotay <Sree_Kotay@cable.comcast.com>
  164. Rik Cabanier <Cabanier@adobe.com>
  165. Jeremy LaCivita <jeremy.lacivita@theplatform.com>
  166. Denis Ah-Kang <denis@w3.org>
  167. Alvar Laigna <laigna@gmail.com>
  168. Kunio Ito <kunio.ito@mail.rakuten.com>
  169. David Mays <david_mays@comcast.com>
  170. Michael Chen <michael_chen@cable.comcast.com>
  171. jongyoul Park <jongyoul@etri.re.kr>
  172. Reinaldo Ferraz <reinaldo@nic.br>
  173. Bill Mandel <bill.mandel@nbcuni.com>
  174. Eva Lingyun Jing <jinglingyun@baidu.com>
  175. GANG LIANG <gang.liang@huawei.com>
  176. Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@apple.com>
  177. Jason Kiss <jason@accessibleculture.org>
  178. Gian Luca Marroni <gmarroni@libero.it>
  179. Ian Devlin <ian@iandevlin.com>
  180. Xingrong Guo <guoxingrong@baidu.com>
  181. Jet Villegas <w3c@junglecode.net>
  182. Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>
  183. Hasan Savran <hsavran@kent.edu>
  184. Eric VonColln <eric.voncolln@navy.mil>
  185. Jungkee Song <jungkee.song@samsung.com>
  186. Rayi Lei <leiyi@baidu.com>
  187. Daniel Austin <daniel.austin@grintech.net>
  188. David Dorwin <ddorwin@google.com>
  189. jiexuan gao <gaojiexuan@baidu.com>
  190. Xiaoqing Yang <yangxiaoqing@baidu.com>
  191. Aaron Colwell <acolwell@google.com>
  192. Alex Giladi <alex.giladi@huawei.com>
  193. Motomasa Futagami <Motomasa.Futagami@jp.sony.com>
  194. Kevin Streeter <kstreete@adobe.com>
  195. Christian Kaiser <kaiserc@google.com>
  196. Xuejian Li <lixuejian@baidu.com>
  197. Zuncheng Yang <yangzuncheng@baidu.com>
  198. Qianglong Zheng <zhengqianglong@baidu.com>
  199. Zhou Shen <shenzhou@baidu.com>
  200. Duoyi Wu <wuduoyi@baidu.com>
  201. Zheng Jia <jiazheng@baidu.com>
  202. Weifeng Feng <fengweifeng@baidu.com>
  203. Damin Hu <hudamin@baidu.com>
  204. Yang Liu <liuyang12@baidu.com>
  205. Zhixing Lei <leizhixing@baidu.com>
  206. Honggang Tang <tanghonggang@baidu.com>
  207. Kefeng Li <buaadallas@gmail.com>
  208. Xu Ma <maxu@baidu.com>
  209. Junzhong Liu <liujunzhong@baidu.com>
  210. Stefan Kaiser <stefan.kaiser@fokus.fraunhofer.de>
  211. Sheau Ng <Sheau.ng@nbcuni.com>
  212. Stefan Pham <stefan.pham@fokus.fraunhofer.de>
  213. Ami Fischman <fischman@google.com>
  214. Arnaud Braud <arnaud.braud@orange.com>
  215. Futomi Hatano <futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp>
  216. Bram Tullemans <tullemans@ebu.ch>
  217. Petr Peterka <ppeterka@verimatrix.com>
  218. lei wang <wanglei03@baidu.com>
  219. Milan Patel <Milan.Patel@huawei.com>
  220. Yiling Gu <guyiling@baidu.com>
  221. Zefa Xiong <xiongzefa@baidu.com>
  222. shanglin chen <chenshanglin@baidu.com>
  223. Yaso Córdova <who@yaso.is>
  224. Ping Wu <wuping02@baidu.com>
  225. Bin Chen <chenbin01@baidu.com>
  226. Youichi Takashima <takashima.youichi@lab.ntt.co.jp>
  227. Patrick Ladd <Pat_Ladd2@cable.comcast.com>
  228. Norifumi Kikkawa <norifumi.kikkawa@jp.sony.com>
  229. Hanrui Gao <gaohanrui@360.cn>
  230. Hao Jing <jh.jinghao@huawei.com>
  231. Glenn Deen <glenn.deen@nbcuni.com>
  232. Lei Wang <wanglei@baidu.com>
  233. Tom Handal <thandal@verimatrix.com>
  234. Pengcheng Guo <guopengcheng@baidu.com>
  235. Tom Wiltzius <wiltzius@google.com>
  236. Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com>
  237. Xie Jianhui <xiejianhui@baidu.com>
  238. Yujie Jiang <jiangyujie@baidu.com>
  239. Kazuhiko Takabayashi <kazuhiko.takabayashi@jp.sony.com>
  240. Brady Eidson <beidson@apple.com>
  241. Jerry Smith <jdsmith@microsoft.com>
  242. Michael Thornburgh <mthornbu@adobe.com>
  243. Andrew Davis <andrew@diff.mx>
  244. Mick Hakobyan <mhakobyan@netflix.com>
  245. Vladimir Sinelnikov <sinelnikov@gmail.com>
  246. Chris Wong <huanghoujin@baidu.com>
  247. Yiliang LIU <liuyiliang@baidu.com>
  248. mingqiang zhang <imcnan@gmail.com>
  249. yubo zhou <zhouyubo@360.cn>
  250. Ben Barber <barberboy@gmail.com>
  251. Suzanne Taylor <Suzanne.Taylor@pearson.com>
  252. Grzegorz Babula <gbabula@gmail.com>
  253. Brian Kardell <hitchjs@gmail.com>
  254. xueliang fan <fanxueliang@baidu.com>
  255. Niels Thorwirth <nthorwirth@verimatrix.com>
  256. David Evans <david.evans@rd.bbc.co.uk>
  257. Danny O'Brien <danny@eff.org>
  258. Joseph Karr O'Connor <josephoconnor@mac.com>
  259. Seth Schoen <schoen@eff.org>
  260. Yusuke Kagiwada <block.rxckin.beats@gmail.com>
  261. smallni ding <smallniding@tencent.com>
  262. Jim Walsh <jim@jwalshcreative.com>
  263. Greg Davis <greg.davis@pearson.com>
  264. Gabino Alonso <gabinovincent@gmail.com>
  265. Sam Langdon <sam.langdon@hachette.co.uk>
  266. Michael Kelly <mkelly@mozilla.com>
  267. Xiaoqian Wu <xiaoqian@w3.org>
  268. Yue Min <minyue@baidu.com>
  269. Min Li <limin04@baidu.com>
  270. A.S. Krishnakumar <ask@avaya.com>
  271. Jonathan Neal <jonathantneal@gmail.com>
  272. Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
  273. Pedro Xavier Jorge <pedro.xavierjorge@gmail.com>
  274. Akira Torii <Torii.Akira@bp.MitsubishiElectric.co.jp>
  275. So Vang <svang@nab.org>
  276. Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício <nathalia@nic.br>
  277. Deblyn prado <deblyn@nic.br>
  278. Vicente García Díaz <vicegd@live.com>
  279. Shinya Maruyama <Shinya.Maruyama@jp.sony.com>
  280. RAVI CHANDRA RAVULAPATI <ravichandra480@gmail.com>
  281. Yusuke Yokosuka <Yokosuka.Yusuke@bx.MitsubishiElectric.co.jp>
  282. John Riviello <john_riviello@comcast.com>
  283. yaolong wang <wangyaolong@baidu.com>
  284. Tao Liang <liangtao01@baidu.com>
  285. Glenn Eguchi <geguchi@adobe.com>
  286. Lukáš Čihák <lukas.cihak@mensa.cz>
  287. WOOGLAE KIM <wlkim@inswave.com>
  288. Min Ren <minren@tencent.com>
  289. Rustam Khashimkhodjaev <Rustam_Khashimkhodjaev@cable.comcast.com>
  290. Jason White <jjwhite@ets.org>
  291. Hyejin Lee <hjlee@html5forum.or.kr>
  292. Richard Grzeczkowski <richard_grzeczkowski@cable.comcast.com>
  293. qigang huang <qiganghuang@tencent.com>
  294. Pascal Perrot <pascal.perrot@orange.com>
  295. Dapeng Liu <max.ldp@alibaba-inc.com>
  296. Matthew Wolenetz <wolenetz@google.com>
  297. Cory Heslip <cory_heslip@cable.comcast.com>
  298. Shaohang Yang <shaohang.ysh@alibaba-inc.com>
  299. Seiji Okumura <Okumura.Seiji@bc.MitsubishiElectric.co.jp>
  300. Eiji Yamamoto <Yamamoto.Eiji@db.MitsubishiElectric.co.jp>

Send an email to all the non-responders.


Compact view of the results / list of email addresses of the responders

WBS home / Questionnaires / WG questionnaires / Answer this questionnaire


Maintained by Laurent Carcone, from a development by Dominique Hazaël-Massieux (dom@w3.org) on an original design by Michael Sperberg-McQueen $Id: showv.php3,v 1.132 2015/11/30 15:46:52 carcone Exp $. Please send bug reports and request for enhancements to lcarcone@w3.org with w3t-sys@w3.org copied (if your mail client supports it, send mail directly to the right persons)