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Results of Questionnaire [Tutorials] Images Tutorial Review - May 2014

The results of this questionnaire are available to anybody. In addition, answers are sent to the following email address: ee@w3.org

This questionnaire was open from 2014-05-01 to 2014-06-02.

10 answers have been received.

Jump to results for question:

  1. Support for publishing the Images Tutorial
  2. Image concepts
  3. Informative images
  4. Decorative images
  5. Functional images
  6. Images of text
  7. Complex images
  8. Groups of images
  9. Image maps
  10. A simple alt decision tree
  11. Tips and Frequently asked questions

1. Support for publishing the Images Tutorial

Note that as a "WAI Resource" (as opposed to a W3C TR/Recommendation/Note), we can make changes quickly if needed later -- with only Working Group approval, we do not need a public review period for this.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages as they are 3
I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages; however, I suggest the changes in the comments sections below (for editors' discretion) 5
I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages only with the changes in the comments sections below 1
I do not support publishing these Images Tutorial pages, because of the comments in the comments sections below
I abstain (not vote)

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder Support for publishing the Images Tutorial
Wayne Dick I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages as they are
Anna Belle Leiserson I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages; however, I suggest the changes in the comments sections below (for editors' discretion)
Vicki Menezes Miller I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages as they are
Paul Schantz I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages as they are
Shadi Abou-Zahra I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages only with the changes in the comments sections below
Sylvie Duchateau I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages; however, I suggest the changes in the comments sections below (for editors' discretion)
Andrew Arch I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages; however, I suggest the changes in the comments sections below (for editors' discretion)
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages; however, I suggest the changes in the comments sections below (for editors' discretion)
Bim Egan I support publishing these Images Tutorial pages; however, I suggest the changes in the comments sections below (for editors' discretion)

2. Image concepts

Image concepts (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Image concepts
Wayne Dick Image Concepts
The final comment on "text only" display is very important! Thank you. I always use images as visual land marks. When I enlarge (300% to 400%) the content size squeezes down to 1/9 or 1/16 the original size. Thus one normal page up must take 9 to 16 page ups. Visual landmarks really help.
Anna Belle Leiserson I'm a little uncomfortable with the copy editing in the breakdown near the top of this page. That means either I missed some things or (more likely) my copy edits were changed. Assuming it's the latter, then here's my thinking.... The text feels choppy. I want to add either a verb or colon. (If using a colon the words would require a little restructuring.) E.g., change "Informative images used to graphically illustrate..." to either "Informative images are used to graphically illustrate..." or "Informative images: Images that graphically illustrate...." Using colons would make it parallel to the Tables Concepts page.
Vicki Menezes Miller Again, an excellent tutorial. I've missed a number of calls so my comments below may not be relevant but I think the bullet points need some slight modification:

- either remove "used to" (for the first 2 bullet points), remove "alone" for the third bullet and so forth
- or a verb needs to be added e.g. "Functional images are used to ..."




Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra priority: medium
location: first paragraph
current wording: "Every image should have a text alternative that provides an equivalent alternative by describing the information or function represented in the image"
suggested revision: "Every image should have a text alternative that describes the information or function represented in the image" or "Every image should have a text alternative that describes the equivalent information or function represented in the image"
rationale: think it is better grammar and easier to read.
Sylvie Duchateau Very clear, no changes proposed.
Andrew Arch Priority: strong for editor's discretion
Location: related resources - techniques (missing)
suggestion: consider cross references any SC related to images
rationale: done for tables - should be included for images tutorial too (and then linking to relevant techniques on the various image type pages as appropriate)

Priority: strong for editor's discretion
Location: concepts and/or tips page
suggestion: emphasis that the document author is best placed to provide the alt text as they know why they included a particular image (rather than the person who might be publishing the information on the web)
Shawn Henry priority: strong suggestion for editors' discretion
location: no where
current wording: missing
suggested revision: Add a paragraph pointing to the decision tree, e.g., something along the lines of: For guidance on deciding which category a specific images fits into, see the alt Decision Tree.
rationale: Use case: Pat has a specific image that s/he's writing alt text for & it's not clear which type of image it is. Pat wants help figuring that out. Right now if Pat just read through the Concepts page (and didn't see the navigation on the left), Pat would miss altogether that there is a Decision Tree, which is the very thing that Pat needs right now.
Sharron Rush Comments on Git, editor's discretion
Bim Egan Medium priority
Location: all pages
Content: the "Jump to navigation" link
Issue: This remains out of viewport on focus.
Suggestion: It should become visible on focus.
Rationale: Skip or jump links are more useful to sighted keyboard only users than screen reader users. The latter user group is more likely to use heading navigation, which may not be available to keyboard only users.

3. Informative images

Informative images (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Informative images
Wayne Dick It is a shame that we cannot make alt text visible if needed. The icons are often way too small to see. In a responsive site this will work, but if text-only enlargement is required the icons are useless. For me best practice would be alt="" with the image followed by text and phone number followed by (fax) or (phone). The file format example is applicable as well.
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra priority: strong
location: second paragraph
current wording: "is a judgement that only the author can make"
suggested revision: "is a judgement that authors make"
rationale: "only" seems too limiting and imprecise (QA testers and others may also need to make a judgement call in a publication or evaluation process).

priority: mild
location: example 1
current wording: icons
suggested revision: consider (1) icons that are more significantly different; (2) a more convincing example; (3) adding a cross-link to "example 4" in "decorative images" with a note saying something like "ideally the word "telephone" or "tel" and "fax" are written out, because some people may not recognize the icons, in which case they become decorative"
rationale: the icons are actually quite difficult to tell apart -- I would argue that it would be better to write out "tel" and "fax" in such a situation.

priority: medium
location: example 2
current wording: "A short text alternative is sufficient to describe the information that displays visually but is not explained in the text"
suggested revision: "A short text alternative is sufficient to describe the key information that the image is intended to display visually"
rationale: think this better refers to "purpose" in the WCAG requirement?

priority: medium
location: example 2, note
current wording: "how the dog wears a bell"
suggested revision: "how the dog wears the bell"
rationale: think it is better grammar and easier to read.

priority: editor's discretion
location: example 2, note
current wording: link to decorative image
suggested revision: cross-link to the specific example
rationale: think it would be clearer?

priority: medium
location: example 2, note
current wording: "As this isn’t mentioned in the text, the image is deemed to be informative"
suggested revision: remove
rationale: seems to repetitive and unnecessarily redundant.

priority: editor's discretion
location: example 3, note 1
current wording: link to decorative image
suggested revision: cross-link to the specific example
rationale: think it would be clearer?

priority: medium
location: example 3, note 1
current wording: ", in which case the visual text could be “Turn counter-clockwise (right to left) to unscrew the cap”"
suggested revision: remove
rationale: seems to repetitive and unnecessarily redundant.

priority: medium
location: example 3, note 2
current wording: entire note
suggested revision: remove
rationale: seems to repetitive and unnecessarily redundant (there isn't more (apparent) substantial information in the image).

priority: medium
location: example 4
current wording: "It’s a stock image so the individuals should not be identified. It’s being used to give the impression that the website or the company it represents is family-friendly"
suggested revision: "It’s a stock image with the purpose to give an impression that the represented company is family-friendly[, rather than to identify the individuals represented]. The text alternative is “We’re family-friendly”, as this describes the intended impression."
rationale: tried to simplify and make it easier to read (also removed "best" as this is arguable and depends on the remaining context of the image).

priority: strong
location: example 4, note
current wording: "The author determines the purpose for using the image"
suggested revision: remove
rationale: sometimes it is not only the author (but usually primarily).

priority: mild
location: example 5, note 1
current wording: " but could be in the same link element (<a>) as the text to include it into the clickable area that is expected"
suggested revision: remove or split sentences
rationale: difficult to read this one long sentence (seems also repetitive of what is in the referenced example).

priority: mild
location: example 5, note 2
current wording: "This particular example is similar to the icon within linked text in Functional Images in that the image conveys information that isn’t given in the link text"
suggested revision: "This particular example is similar to the icon within linked text in Functional Images, only in this example the icon provides information rather than a function"
rationale: trying to spell out the difference between the two examples.
Sylvie Duchateau Very clear, no changes proposed.
Andrew Arch Priority: low for editor's discretion
suggestion: consider adding 'see also' links to PDF etc techniques equivalent to H37 to help folk not using HTML (applies to all images types)
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush is it just my monitor or are the phone numbers displaying at less than 4.5 to 1? I recall that there were other contrast issues that turned out to be just on me, so disregard if so.
Bim Egan

4. Decorative images

Decorative images (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Decorative images
Wayne Dick
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra priority: medium
location: second paragraph
current wording: "Text values for this type of images would add audible clutter to screen reader output or could distract users if the topic is different from that in adjacent text"
suggested revision: "For example, screen readers would be inclined to read aloud all text alternatives provided for every spacer image, bullet, and other decoration on a web page, rather than to ignore them"
rationale: trying to make the point come through more clearly.

priority: medium
location: third paragraph
current wording: "If the alt attribute is not used at all some screen readers will announce the image’s file name"
suggested revision: move to last sentence of second paragraph, maybe with a connecting "On the other hand, " or "Omitting the null (empty) alt attribute is equally bad because screen readers will then announce the image’s file name instead"
rationale: seems better match with the previous paragraph but may need some rewriting.

priority: strong
location: second paragraph
current wording: "is a judgement that only the author can make"
suggested revision: "is a judgement that authors make"
rationale: "only" seems too limiting and imprecise (QA testers and others may also need to make a judgement call in a publication or evaluation process).

priority: editor's discretion
location: intro note
current wording: "Where possible decorative images should be part of the CSS styling rather than being in the HTML"
suggested wording: "HTML shouldn’t be used to provide decorative images. Instead, use Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) for visual presentation."
rationale: trying to reuse tone and approach from tables note (active voice etc).

priority: minor
location: example 1
current wording: two approaches
suggested wording: consider using "Approach 1" ... "Approach 2" from "Tables Summary" section
rationale: to better separate between the two approaches described.

priority: minor
location: example 2, note
current wording: entire text
suggested wording: better align with previous notes (eg. use "considered decorative" rather than "does not add visual information"?)
rationale: seems to have a different tone and approach from the other notes, and is also not very clear and easy to follow.

priority: strong
location: example 3
current wording: "This picture of “Poppy the guide dog”" ... "Let sleeping dogs lie. This is a proverb that means: “don’t initiate trouble. If something that could be troublesome is quiet, then leave it alone”"
suggested wording: "This picture of “Poppy the guide dog sleeping”" ... "Poppy the guide dog sleeping: Poppy loves to sleep at every chance he gets. And as the wise proverb says: “Let sleeping dogs lie”"
rationale: "Poppy the guide dog" is currently *not* "already identified by the adjacent caption".

priority: strong
location: example 4, note
current wording: "The author determines the purpose for using the image"
suggested revision: remove
rationale: sometimes it is not only the author (but usually primarily).
Sylvie Duchateau 1. Location: note for example 1.
Priority: Editor's discretion.
Actual text: "Screen readers also allow the use of WAI-ARIA to hide elements by using role="presentation". Note that this feature is not as widely supported as using a null alt attribute."
Proposed change: is not as widely
supported for now, or at the time of the publication of this tutorial. It would suggest that this may change in the near future.
Andrew Arch ok
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush good
Bim Egan

5. Functional images

Functional images (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Functional images
Wayne Dick Functional Images
Again, icons are invisible to visually impaired users who do not use screen readers that are oriented to blindness.
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra priority: medium
location: second paragraph
current wording: "“print this page” rather than “(image of a) printer”, “search” rather than “magnifying lens” or “Example.com homepage” rather than “Example.com logo”"
suggested revision: "“print this page” rather than “(image of a) printer”, “search” rather than “magnifying lens”, and “Example.com homepage” rather than “Example.com logo”"
rationale: think it is better grammar and easier to read.

priority: medium
location: third paragraph
current wording: "Images acting as stand alone links should have the appropriate text value in the alt attribute"
suggested revision: remove
rationale: covered in example 4; unclear what this sentence means on its own.

priority: medium
location: third paragraph
current wording: "Missing or empty alt values create real problems for screen reader users as links cannot be ignored. The screen reader will announce the image filepath or the URL for the destination page which won’t help users know where the link leads to."
suggested revision: remove
rationale: already covered in "decorative images" and no images in this section should be empty. otherwise consider putting this as an important note in the concepts page (and removing from the decorative images page too), or the tips and FAQ page. also the tone and approach is very different from the rest of the tutorials -- it needs to be adjusted in any case.


priority: medium
location: example 2
current wording: entire text including note
suggested revision: (1) revise tone and approach; (2) reduce wordyness; (3) remove redundancy between main paragraph and note
rationale: it is quite unclear and difficult to understand, and also seems very repetitive but using different words so that one always has to think about what is actually meant.

priority: medium
location: example 3, note
current wording: entire note
suggested revision: reuse tone and approach from "informative image" example and cross-link back to it
rationale: you reference one from the other, then you should make the same reference back again.
Sylvie Duchateau Very clear, no changes proposed.
Andrew Arch ok
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush good
Bim Egan

6. Images of text

Images of text (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Images of text
Wayne Dick Images of Text
Excellent! Good resource for MathML.
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra priority: medium
location: first paragraph
current wording: "The strongest design technique is to use actual text – styled with CSS – rather than image-based text presentation."
suggested revision: "Some (vector-based) image formats, such as SVG and @@@, can be resized without losing quality. However, most formats used, such as JPG, GIF, and PNG, are raster-based and lose quality when they are resized. In many situations Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) can be used to create the desired visual styling effect yet provide many more benefits including: [bullet list] Ensures that the text can be restyled to meet more people's needs; Allows the text to be more easily indexed by search engines; Allows the text to be copied and pasted, for example for citations."
rationale: explaining the rationale and benefits more clearly rather than jumping ahead (then back again in the next paragraph).

priority: medium
location: second paragraph
current wording: "Actual text is much more flexible than images: It can be resized without losing clarity, and background and text colors can be modified to suit users’ reading preferences. Images are more likely to distort and pixelate when resized."
suggested revision: remove
rationale: already covered by rewrite from previous comment.

priority: editor's discretion
location: example 1
current wording: "that used to be impossible to be realized consistently across browsers by using CSS styling only"
suggested wording: remove
rationale: seems unnecessary.

priority: minor
location: example 1
current wording: two approaches
suggested wording: consider using "Approach 1" ... "Approach 2" from "Tables Summary" section
rationale: to better separate between the two approaches described.

priority: medium
location: example 1, note 1
current wording: entire note
suggested wording: not sure what that means - what should I do now?
rationale: actually the example doesn't look good (small text) in my configuration -- is this note relevant? if so then please clarify.

priority: medium
location: example 1, note 2
current wording: entire note
suggested wording: put this as a CSS comment
rationale: seems like a marginal comment that is primarily for the CSS lovers, who have read the CSS code and spotted the difference (hence put the comment where they see it but not others).

priority: minor
location: example 3
current wording: two approaches
suggested wording: consider using "Approach 1" ... "Approach 2" from "Tables Summary" section
rationale: to better separate between the two approaches described.
Sylvie Duchateau Only comments on typos and missing word sent to wai-eo mailing list.
Andrew Arch Priority: medium for editor's discretion
Location: para 1
current: ' The strongest design technique is to use actual text'
suggestion: ' The best design technique is to use actual text'
rationale: reads better IMHO

Priority: low
location: example 3 MathML
suggestion: consider adding a note that the 'recurring 3' may not be displayed in the viewer's browser (it wasn't in my FF29 under Win7)
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush good
Bim Egan

7. Complex images

Complex images (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Complex images
Wayne Dick Complex Images
Excellent. The blackout of embedded longdesc to non-users of screen readers was a good inclusion.
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra Awesome!
Sylvie Duchateau Very clear. Longdesc is clear too. Comment on typo included in mail to wai-eo editors' list.
Location: in approach 4 on the use of figure element:
It may be helpful to add a note on how well this new HTML5 feature is supported.
Priority: editor's discretion.
Same note to approach 5.
Andrew Arch Priority: medium for editor's discretion
Location: example 1, approach 1, note
Suggestion: consider adding a note that many people have difficulty understanding graphs and charts (not just those that can't see them) and a hidden 'longdesc' link is not advisable in most cases and they should STRONGLY consider the alternative ways of providing a long text description.

Location: example 1, approach 5,
Suggestion: consider adding a note that many people have difficulty understanding graphs and charts (not just those that can't see them) and a hidden 'aria-decribed-by' is not advisable in most cases and they should STRONGLY consider the alternative ways of providing a long text description.
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush excellent
Bim Egan

8. Groups of images

Groups of images (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Groups of images
Wayne Dick
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra priority: strong
location: first paragraph
current wording: "A grouped collection of images is sometimes used to convey a single piece of information. For instance, five star images are often used to denote a product rating."
suggested wording: "A grouped collection of images is sometimes used to convey a single piece of information. For instance, five images of stars are often used to denote a product rating. Another example is three paintings that are collectively considered as a single work of art."
rationale: trying to clarify the first example and also reflect the second example.

priority: strong
location: first paragraph
current wording: "When images are a grouped collection, the text alternative for one of the images should convey the information for the entire group; all other images should have null (empty) alt attributes. For example, as shown in example 1 below, the descriptive text alternative on one image should be “3.5 out of 5 stars”, rather than “1 star”, “half star” or “unfilled star” on each image."
suggested wording: move to Example 1 (and reword accordingly)
rationale: this only applies to example 1.

priority: strong
location: Example 1, title
current wording: "Group of images for rating"
suggested wording: "Group of images that collectively have a single purpose"
rationale: title needs to be generalized from the specific rating *example* to the broader *situation* (than could apply to other examples).

priority: strong
location: Example 2, title
current wording: "Captions for Image Groups"
suggested wording: "Group of different images that are part of a collection"
rationale: title needs to be clearer.

priority: strong
location: Example 2
current wording:
suggested wording: add a brief description of the situation right after the title so that people understand what you are talking about
rationale: currently the text jumps right into caption and figure element without explaining the context -- complete the thought: this section applies to you when you are trying to...?
PS: why should an image have a caption? when does it have a caption?
PPS: OK, it is only _valid_ in HTML5 but can you say anything about current browser support?
Sylvie Duchateau Very clear.
Editor's discretion: in the list of techniques (no time to look for them), should ARIA techniques be added and figure techniques as this is mentionned in the example?
May be add as well a note about the support of this new approaches.
Andrew Arch ok
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush good
Bim Egan

9. Image maps

Image maps (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Image maps
Wayne Dick
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra Awesome!
Sylvie Duchateau 1. For a reason I cannot explain, the example is not conveyed correctly with NVDA 2014.2 and Firefox.
It only says: "Board of directors and related staff: Board of directors and related staff:"
Nothing about Davy Jones.
With IE11 it works correctly.
With Jaws 12 and 14 and IE11 there is no valuable information as well. Could not test with Firefox, on this computer, may be complete the test tomorrow on another one.
Some explanations on the support of this example may be needed as in usual situations, image maps are conveyed correctly by screen readers.

2. Editor's discretion:
There are two similar H2: "Related WCAG2.0 Techniques" and "Related WCAG2.0 Resources".
Only use one?
Andrew Arch ok
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush good
Bim Egan

10. A simple alt decision tree

A simple alt decision tree (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder A simple alt decision tree
Wayne Dick WOW! REALLY GREAT.
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra Awesome!
Sylvie Duchateau It is very clear, no comment.
Andrew Arch ok - but would be nice to have a flow-chart version as well as a text version
Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush yes, love this!
Bim Egan

11. Tips and Frequently asked questions

Tips and Frequently asked questions (Current work in progress on Github)
For each comment, remember to indicate if it is a suggestion for editor's discretion or if you feel it must be addressed before this version is published.

Details

Responder Tips and Frequently asked questions
Wayne Dick
Anna Belle Leiserson
Vicki Menezes Miller
Paul Schantz Ok to publish.
Shadi Abou-Zahra Consider putting "logs are exempt..." as last item.
Consider an FAQ: "I've been told text-only pages without images are more accessible" (may need to be discussed with EOWG if this is a good or bad idea).
Sylvie Duchateau It is very clear, no comment.
Andrew Arch Priority: low for editor's discretion
Suggestion: consider adding a tip that 'alt' is primarily for screen reader users and those choosing not to display images, however as image complexity increases, cognitive load also increases and visible explanations of images are desirable.

Shawn Henry
Sharron Rush suggested to remove "color" from phrase "minimum color contrast" editor discretion.
Bim Egan

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