IRC log of webont on 2002-08-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:26:00 [RRSAgent]
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15:26:06 [Zakim]
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15:28:19 [DanC]
agenda + 29Aug http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0248.html
15:28:49 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: WebOnt 29Aug. chair: JimH; scribe: Tim Finin
15:52:43 [timfinin]
timfinin has joined #WEBONT
15:54:10 [jhendler]
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15:54:44 [jjc]
jjc has joined #webont
15:54:59 [jjc]
is it time to dial?
15:55:09 [jjc]
Zakim, who ?
15:55:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, jjc.
15:55:17 [jjc]
Zakim, help
15:55:18 [Zakim]
Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
15:55:19 [Zakim]
Some of the commands I know are:
15:55:20 [Zakim]
xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
15:55:22 [Zakim]
if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
15:55:24 [Zakim]
xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
15:55:27 [Zakim]
I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
15:55:29 [Zakim]
xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
15:55:31 [Zakim]
xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
15:55:32 [Zakim]
who's here? - lists the participants on the phone
15:55:34 [Zakim]
who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted
15:55:36 [Zakim]
mute xxx - mutes party xxx (such that 60# will not work)
15:55:38 [Zakim]
unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
15:55:40 [Zakim]
is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
15:55:42 [jjc]
Zakim, who's here?
15:55:43 [Zakim]
list conferences - reports the active conferences
15:55:44 [Zakim]
this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx
15:55:45 [Zakim]
excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel
15:55:45 [schreiber]
schreiber has joined #webont
15:55:45 [Zakim]
I last learned something new on $Date: 2002/08/26 18:59:15 $
15:55:47 [Zakim]
sorry, jjc, I don't know what conference this is
15:55:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
15:56:48 [Zakim]
SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
15:56:55 [Zakim]
+??P3
15:57:27 [Zakim]
+Jim_Hendler
15:58:57 [jhendler]
zakim, agenda+ ADMIN
15:58:59 [Zakim]
agendum 2 added
15:59:09 [jhendler]
zakim, what is the agenda
15:59:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'what is the agenda', jhendler. Try /msg Zakim help
15:59:15 [jhendler]
zakim, what is the agenda?
15:59:16 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:59:17 [Zakim]
1. 29Aug http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0248.html [from DanC]
15:59:18 [Zakim]
2. ADMIN [from jhendler]
15:59:31 [Zakim]
+??P7
15:59:41 [Zakim]
+Marwan_Sabbouh
16:00:02 [Zakim]
+??P11
16:00:04 [jhendler]
zakim, agenda+ TEST
16:00:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3 added
16:00:13 [jhendler]
zakim, agenda+ SEM
16:00:14 [Zakim]
agendum 4 added
16:00:24 [jhendler]
zakim, agenda+ GUIDE
16:00:25 [Zakim]
agendum 5 added
16:00:31 [jhendler]
zakim, agenda+ AOB
16:00:32 [Zakim]
agendum 6 added
16:00:39 [jhendler]
zakim, next agendum
16:00:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "29Aug http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0248.html" taken up [from DanC]
16:00:42 [jjc]
Zakim, ??P11 is jjc
16:00:43 [Zakim]
+Jjc; got it
16:00:50 [Zakim]
+??P9
16:01:01 [Zakim]
+??P16
16:01:02 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
16:01:03 [timfinin]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0262.html
16:01:04 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #webont
16:01:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P3, Jim_Hendler, ??P7, Marwan_Sabbouh, Jjc, ??P9, ??P16
16:01:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ChrisW, schreiber, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:01:07 [Zakim]
+??P17
16:01:13 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p3 is Guus
16:01:15 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
16:01:23 [jhendler]
zakim, ??P7 is TimFinin
16:01:24 [Zakim]
+TimFinin; got it
16:01:31 [pfps]
pfps has joined #webont
16:01:35 [Zakim]
+DanBri
16:01:39 [Zakim]
+TimF.a
16:01:40 [jjc]
61# mutes the phone
16:01:40 [Zakim]
+??P27
16:01:43 [Zakim]
+??P20
16:01:46 [Zakim]
+Leo
16:01:52 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here
16:01:53 [Zakim]
jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'
16:01:58 [Zakim]
+M_Smith
16:02:03 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
16:02:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TimFinin, Marwan_Sabbouh, Jjc (muted), ??P9, ??P16, ??P17, DanBri, TimF.a, ??P27, ??P20, Leo, M_Smith
16:02:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pfps, ChrisW, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:02:05 [Zakim]
+??P29
16:02:10 [Zakim]
+Goto
16:02:16 [Massimo]
Massimo has joined #webont
16:02:17 [schreiber]
schreiber has joined #webont
16:02:20 [timfinin]
Today's agenda is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0248.html
16:02:26 [jhendler]
zakim, TimFinin is Massimo
16:02:28 [Zakim]
+Massimo; got it
16:02:31 [Zakim]
+??P31
16:02:34 [libby]
libby has joined #webont
16:02:35 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here
16:02:37 [Zakim]
jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'
16:02:59 [schreiber]
zakim, who is here?
16:03:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, Massimo, Marwan_Sabbouh, Jjc (muted), ??P9, ??P16, ??P17, DanBri, TimF.a, ??P27, ??P20, Leo, M_Smith, ??P29, Goto, ??P31
16:03:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see libby, schreiber, Massimo, pfps, ChrisW, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:03:03 [jjc]
zakim, why are you so pedantic?
16:03:04 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, jjc.
16:03:10 [Zakim]
+Massimo.a
16:03:19 [libby]
I think danbri is me
16:03:21 [Massimo]
Zakim, Massimo is TImFinin
16:03:22 [Zakim]
+TImFinin; got it
16:03:26 [libby]
I'm using his phone
16:03:30 [Massimo]
Zakim, Massimo.a is Massimo
16:03:31 [Zakim]
+Massimo; got it
16:03:51 [libby]
Zakim, DanBri is libby
16:03:53 [Zakim]
+Libby; got it
16:03:55 [pfps]
Zakim, ??P17 is pfps .
16:03:56 [ChrisW]
I'm on the phone somewheres
16:03:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P17 is pfps .', pfps. Try /msg Zakim help
16:04:02 [Zakim]
+??P13
16:04:14 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p17 is pfps
16:04:15 [Zakim]
+Pfps; got it
16:04:16 [pfps]
Zakim, ??P17 is pfps
16:04:17 [Zakim]
sorry, pfps, I do not recognize a party named '??P17'
16:04:28 [Zakim]
+??P0
16:05:00 [DeborahMc]
DeborahMc has joined #webont
16:05:18 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
16:05:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TImFinin, Marwan_Sabbouh, Jjc (muted), ??P9, ??P16, Pfps, Libby, TimF.a, ??P27, ??P20, Leo, M_Smith, ??P29, Goto, ??P31, Massimo (muted),
16:05:21 [Zakim]
... ??P13, ??P0
16:05:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DeborahMc, libby, schreiber, Massimo, pfps, ChrisW, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:06:02 [Zakim]
+DanC
16:06:06 [libby]
Zakim, mute Libby
16:06:07 [Zakim]
Libby should now be muted
16:06:08 [jjc]
I am getting lots of echo, I am muted, is it my line?
16:06:13 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p9 is jonathan
16:06:14 [Zakim]
+Jonathan; got it
16:06:15 [DanC]
Zakim, who's talking?
16:06:27 [Zakim]
DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jim_Hendler (23%), Marwan_Sabbouh (25%), ??P13 (35%), Leo (4%), ??P31 (39%)
16:06:27 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p16 is Ian
16:06:29 [Zakim]
+Ian; got it
16:06:34 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p20 is chris
16:06:35 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
16:06:37 [DanC]
Zakim, mute Marwan
16:06:39 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
16:06:39 [Zakim]
Marwan_Sabbouh should now be muted
16:06:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TImFinin, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), Jjc (muted), Jonathan, Ian, Pfps, Libby (muted), TimF.a, ??P27, Chris, Leo, M_Smith, ??P29, Goto, ??P31,
16:06:42 [Zakim]
... Massimo (muted), ??P13, ??P0, DanC
16:06:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DeborahMc, libby, schreiber, Massimo, pfps, ChrisW, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:06:44 [Massimo]
Jeremy, it could be Ian (if you're muted, it can't be you ;)
16:07:02 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p13 is heflin
16:07:03 [Zakim]
+Heflin; got it
16:07:11 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p0 is gibbins
16:07:13 [Zakim]
+Gibbins; got it
16:07:14 [jjc]
I am in Italy, I quite often need to redial international calls
16:07:15 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here
16:07:17 [Zakim]
jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'
16:07:25 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
16:07:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TImFinin, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), Jjc (muted), Jonathan, Ian, Pfps, Libby (muted), TimF.a, ??P27, Chris, Leo, M_Smith, ??P29, Goto, ??P31,
16:07:28 [Zakim]
... Massimo (muted), Heflin, Gibbins, DanC
16:07:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DeborahMc, libby, schreiber, Massimo, pfps, ChrisW, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:07:47 [DanC]
Zakim, who's talking?
16:07:59 [Zakim]
DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Heflin (14%), Chris (19%), ??P31 (71%)
16:08:01 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p31 is mike
16:08:02 [Zakim]
+Mike; got it
16:08:04 [DanC]
Klein, Dean, Eshelman
16:08:10 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p29 is LarryE
16:08:11 [Zakim]
+LarryE; got it
16:08:27 [jhendler]
zakim, TimFinin is terHorst
16:08:28 [Zakim]
+TerHorst; got it
16:08:43 [jhendler]
zakim, Goto is Klein
16:08:45 [Zakim]
+Klein; got it
16:08:48 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
16:08:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TerHorst, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), Jjc (muted), Jonathan, Ian, Pfps, Libby (muted), TimF.a, ??P27, Chris, Leo, M_Smith, LarryE, Klein, Mike,
16:08:51 [Zakim]
... Massimo (muted), Heflin, Gibbins, DanC
16:08:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DeborahMc, libby, schreiber, Massimo, pfps, ChrisW, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:09:01 [timfinin]
goto considered dangerous?
16:09:06 [jhendler]
zakim, ??p27 is McGuinness
16:09:07 [Zakim]
+McGuinness; got it
16:09:08 [jjc]
I am going to redial ... dropping out for a moment ...
16:09:11 [Zakim]
-Jjc
16:09:17 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here
16:09:18 [Zakim]
jhendler, you need to end that query with '?'
16:09:20 [jhendler]
zakim, who is here?
16:09:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TerHorst, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), Jonathan, Ian, Pfps, Libby (muted), TimF.a, McGuinness, Chris, Leo, M_Smith, LarryE, Klein, Mike, Massimo
16:09:23 [Zakim]
... (muted), Heflin, Gibbins, DanC
16:09:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DeborahMc, libby, schreiber, Massimo, pfps, ChrisW, jjc, jhendler, timfinin, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanC, logger_1
16:09:28 [herman]
herman has joined #webont
16:09:29 [Zakim]
-M_Smith
16:09:58 [Zakim]
+M_Smith
16:10:00 [Zakim]
+??P2
16:10:05 [timfinin]
attendance finished
16:10:09 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P2 is JeremyC
16:10:10 [Zakim]
+JeremyC; got it
16:10:19 [timfinin]
tim finin is scribing
16:10:25 [timfinin]
Today's agenda is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0248.html
16:10:55 [Zakim]
+Pat_Hayes
16:10:58 [timfinin]
last week's miutes approved
16:11:32 [jjc]
zakim, unmute JeremyC
16:11:34 [Zakim]
JeremyC was not muted, jjc
16:11:49 [timfinin]
Larry E action to collect examples continues, needs more examples
16:12:24 [timfinin]
JimH action to collect test case for issue 4.2 continued. mail sent to jeremy
16:12:35 [timfinin]
Jeremy action to remove rdf suff done
16:12:37 [DanC]
does Larry really _need_ more examples? or does he just want them?
16:12:43 [timfinin]
Guss action to do part-of action done
16:12:58 [timfinin]
Dlm action done
16:13:40 [timfinin]
Guus to update UML document to reflect new Owl Lite -- what was the stats?
16:13:55 [schreiber]
my action is continued
16:14:05 [timfinin]
Mike dean to take on RDF/RDFS/OWL
16:14:06 [ChrisW]
I am working on an OWL-ized version of the standard part relation axioms
16:14:06 [timfinin]
Lite/OWL comparison/discussion document
16:14:11 [timfinin]
action coninued
16:14:27 [timfinin]
done: Hayes will do a revision of his model theory
16:14:37 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:14:38 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JeremyC
16:14:38 [Zakim]
-M_Smith
16:14:41 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:14:42 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Marwan_Sabbouh (muted)
16:14:43 [timfinin]
done Peter Patel-Schneider will do a revision of his model theory
16:14:48 [ChrisW]
won't be here next week
16:14:49 [DanC]
ack Marwan
16:14:55 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:14:56 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Leo
16:15:00 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:15:01 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Guus
16:15:15 [Zakim]
+M_Smith
16:15:37 [timfinin]
next week's scribe will be Leo.
16:15:49 [timfinin]
Face to face 4 update
16:15:50 [timfinin]
Jeremy re: registration proces
16:16:00 [DanC]
registration: http://www.w3.org/2000/11/msm/showv.php3?wgid=30310&qno=ftf4att
16:16:31 [timfinin]
12 orgs responded that they are coming, 3 not coming, 21 have not said.
16:16:58 [jjc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0151.html
16:16:59 [timfinin]
hotel info is only in email. make reservations before cutoff
16:17:44 [timfinin]
jjc will renegotiate with hotel to extend registration time with hotel, if possible
16:18:06 [ChrisW]
4th f2f: +1 responded, -1 not said
16:18:44 [DanC]
hotel info linked from wg home page http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/ $Revision: 1.152 $
16:18:48 [jhendler]
travel info on local registration page
16:18:55 [libby]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/events/20020620-kickoff/Overview.html#Logistics
16:18:59 [libby]
might be helpful
16:19:03 [DanC]
local info page: http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/jjc/webont/webontOct.html
16:19:17 [timfinin]
it's a two hour drive from heathrow to briston, three hours from gatwick
16:19:22 [jhendler]
2 hr heathrow, 3 from Gatwick
16:19:56 [timfinin]
ACTION: jjs will sort out entertainment options for ftf4
16:20:27 [libby]
ilrt is poor :(
16:20:31 [jhendler]
s/jjs/jjc
16:20:35 [timfinin]
jjs invites sponsors for ftf4 entertainment. HP will not pay
16:20:48 [libby]
ilrt is poor but fun!
16:21:48 [timfinin]
ftf5 meeting discussion begins
16:22:42 [timfinin]
danc says WOWG carter goes thru november
16:23:05 [timfinin]
jimh assumes a march/april ftf will deal with minor matters
16:24:06 [timfinin]
ftf meetings coming up include October, ?Jauary, ?March/april
16:24:14 [jjc]
q+
16:24:23 [timfinin]
chrisw: what's the rational for meeting in march in boston?
16:24:41 [timfinin]
jimh: w3c plenary is there, then.
16:24:51 [libby]
the tech plenaries are usually very interesting
16:24:52 [DanC]
# CONFIRMED: Technical Plenary DATES: 3-7 March 2003 Susan Westhaver (Mon, Jul 08 2002) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2002JulSep/0011.html
16:24:58 [DanC]
[member confidential]
16:25:58 [timfinin]
jimh says it's good to have presence at w3c plenary if we're coming out with recommendation
16:26:49 [timfinin]
mike dean attests that w3c plenaries very valuable, jjc concurs
16:26:55 [jjc]
q-
16:27:07 [DanC]
ack DanC
16:28:16 [Zakim]
-Mike
16:28:29 [timfinin]
under discussion is where should ftf5 and ftf6 be.
16:29:25 [timfinin]
danc raises possibility of a two site meeting (e.g., east coaast, west coast usa) linked by video, as done in some w3c meetings
16:29:27 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
16:30:35 [timfinin]
ianh will work to provide good remote access (via access grid) to ftf4 in manchester
16:32:25 [DanC]
http://www-fp.mcs.anl.gov/fl/accessgrid/
16:32:36 [DanC]
list of sites: http://www-fp.mcs.anl.gov/fl/accessgrid/ag-nodes.htm
16:33:48 [timfinin]
jimh describes option 1: manchester meeting with remote access
16:33:58 [jjc]
nodes include Brookhaven National Laboratory
16:34:11 [jjc]
versity at Buffalo
16:34:31 [schreiber]
q+
16:35:20 [jjc]
q+
16:35:30 [timfinin]
guus suggests we don't need a ftf in january since as danc points out, charter is up this fall.
16:35:40 [DanC]
s/suggests/offers the possibility/
16:36:26 [timfinin]
danc proposes we are done in december.
16:37:07 [timfinin]
done => out for review
16:37:14 [DanC]
I didn't propose; i observed that this is the schedule of record.
16:37:32 [timfinin]
But you said "propose" I think.
16:37:51 [DanC]
I said "Proposed Recommendation" which is the milestone we're scheduled to reach in December.
16:38:05 [timfinin]
ok
16:38:56 [timfinin]
jimh raises possibility of long telecon to finish details in January, rather than a ftf
16:39:48 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:39:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TerHorst, Marwan_Sabbouh (muted), Jonathan, Ian, Pfps, Libby (muted), TimF.a, McGuinness, Chris, Leo, LarryE, Klein, Massimo (muted), Heflin,
16:39:50 [timfinin]
jimh and ian suggest we schedule ftf in january and then cancel if not needed
16:39:51 [Zakim]
... Gibbins, DanC, JeremyC, Pat_Hayes, M_Smith, Mike_Dean
16:40:26 [DanC]
ack Marwan
16:41:01 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #webont
16:41:21 [timfinin]
danc is polling ppl to see how they feel about a jan ftf
16:41:27 [libby]
Zakim, unmute libby
16:41:27 [DanC]
ack libby
16:41:28 [Zakim]
Libby should no longer be muted
16:41:44 [libby]
zakim, mute libby
16:41:45 [Zakim]
Libby should now be muted
16:43:18 [DanC]
massimo
16:44:35 [ChrisW]
I can live with the two-site approach, too
16:45:16 [timfinin]
No strong consensus seems to emerge?
16:45:37 [timfinin]
Jimh sees no consensus
16:46:40 [timfinin]
jimh suggests scheduling ftf in january with option to cancel if it's deemed not neccessary. location in manchester with Chrisw providing a NY access grip point
16:47:06 [timfinin]
dlm says she wouldn't travel across country to participate in NY access
16:47:09 [DanC]
(seems to me the time for discussion is perhaps exhausted; seems perhaps in order to do an actual binding vote)
16:47:16 [DanC]
(maybe by email)
16:47:27 [ChrisW]
+q
16:47:37 [timfinin]
ianh suggests dlm can get access to access grid node in Northern CA
16:47:41 [schreiber]
ack schreiber
16:47:55 [schreiber]
ack jjc
16:48:15 [schreiber]
ack ChrisW
16:48:15 [DanC]
hmm... "consensus"? i.e. no objections to NY? that's not what I saw.
16:48:29 [ChrisW]
on the web vote
16:48:30 [timfinin]
chrisw says consensus in email vote was to hold jan ftf in NY
16:48:42 [Massimo]
we need a new tally with the new options
16:48:49 [mdean]
mdean has joined #webont
16:49:22 [timfinin]
discussion of calling for a vot, what's the question, danc asks
16:49:49 [jhendler]
January 9 and 10 are the dates proposed
16:50:19 [timfinin]
question: 9-10 january ftf in either (1) manchester or (2) NY
16:51:08 [timfinin]
jjc proposes another question: should be schedule fttf6 in boston in conjunction with w3c mtg?
16:51:44 [timfinin]
jimh proposes ftf6 in boston at w3c plenary to be canceld if not needed
16:51:50 [timfinin]
dates: 3-7 March 2003
16:52:24 [libby]
miller
16:52:28 [ChrisW]
Welty in favor
16:52:38 [timfinin]
danc calls for vote on his q, ftf6 in boston 3-7 march
16:52:52 [ChrisW]
sounds like consensus!
16:53:04 [timfinin]
many say yes, no one says no
16:53:11 [ChrisW]
q+
16:53:23 [timfinin]
jimh does formal vote. question passes
16:53:36 [jhendler]
Resolved, to hold f2f6 in Boston.
16:53:51 [timfinin]
resolved: ftf6 will be scheduled in Boston 3-7 March 2003. may be canceled if deemed no longer neccessary
16:53:53 [jjc]
s/./ if necessary./
16:55:13 [timfinin]
jimh does straw poll on ftf5 in (1) manchester vs (2) NY on 9-10 jan
16:55:27 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:55:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Guus, Jim_Hendler, TerHorst, Marwan_Sabbouh, Jonathan, Ian, Pfps, Libby (muted), TimF.a, McGuinness, Chris, Leo, LarryE, Klein, Massimo (muted), Heflin, Gibbins,
16:55:31 [Zakim]
... DanC, JeremyC, Pat_Hayes, M_Smith, Mike_Dean
16:55:34 [timfinin]
danc runs poll
16:55:54 [libby]
manchester
16:56:31 [DanC]
M A M N M M M M N N N N N A M N A N M A N M
16:56:38 [ChrisW]
wow
16:56:49 [timfinin]
poll results: [9] Manchester, [9] NY, [4] neutral or abstain
16:57:14 [timfinin]
who has a coin?
16:58:01 [timfinin]
danc proposes we do a vote (non secret) by email, one vote per organization
16:58:23 [Massimo]
1.5 bits ;)
16:58:46 [timfinin]
ACTION: danc will hold email vote on location of ftf5: Manchester or NY. One vote per org. seven days to respond
16:59:19 [timfinin]
two more items for today: TEST and SEM.
17:00:08 [timfinin]
jimh would like to make time for SEM, 5-10 minutes
17:00:20 [timfinin]
path to report on his work on SEM
17:00:31 [DanC]
# Re: ftf 5 in Manchester Peter F. Patel-Schneider (Tue, Aug 27 2002) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0236.html
17:00:40 [DanC]
-> http://www.coginst.uwf.edu/users/phayes/RDFS2OWL-D.html
17:00:49 [jjc]
mute JeremyC
17:00:58 [DanC]
Zakim, mute jeremy
17:01:00 [Zakim]
JeremyC should now be muted
17:01:07 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #webont
17:01:49 [timfinin]
path will produce a new document in the next few days
17:02:17 [jjc]
Zakim, unmute JeremyC
17:02:18 [Zakim]
JeremyC should no longer be muted
17:02:23 [jjc]
q+
17:02:27 [timfinin]
jimh asks if we are down to details or are there still major issues?
17:02:29 [ChrisW]
q-
17:03:16 [timfinin]
danc says new proposal is not substantively different from pfps's model theory
17:03:57 [timfinin]
jjc says we still have issues, like are classes in or not in the domain of discourse
17:04:24 [timfinin]
jjc also raises classes as instances issues -- rdf allows this, what do we want. we can go either way
17:05:16 [timfinin]
jimh asks do we have a framework in which we can resolve the issues, not have we resolved them.
17:06:33 [timfinin]
pfps says the path document and approach can't handle all rdf graphs.
17:07:17 [timfinin]
pfps: can any coherent extension be made to cover all rdf graphs and give them an owl meaning?
17:08:39 [timfinin]
mike smith asks if there are any competing theories?
17:09:07 [timfinin]
mike smith: how does the axiomatic stuff layer on the semantics
17:10:18 [schreiber]
q+
17:11:05 [timfinin]
pfps asks danc if there are things in path's document he objects to
17:11:31 [timfinin]
(e.g. OWL top doesn't include all RDF things)
17:12:14 [timfinin]
path feels like we have the layering problem licked.
17:12:55 [schreiber]
fan,
17:13:05 [timfinin]
further discussion will take place on mailing list
17:13:23 [timfinin]
jjc will take action to proke on mailing list.
17:13:31 [schreiber]
Dan, could you give a list of changes to Pat's MT so that it would comply with your MT
17:13:40 [timfinin]
s/proke/provoke/
17:13:58 [timfinin]
end of discussion on SEM, moving to TEST
17:14:13 [jhendler]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0204.html
17:14:38 [pfps]
q+
17:14:44 [timfinin]
jjc proposes we approve several TESTs
17:14:46 [jjc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Aug/0223.html
17:14:57 [schreiber]
q-
17:15:15 [jjc]
q-
17:15:37 [timfinin]
pfps suggests we first decide how tests should be approved.
17:16:31 [jjc]
zakim, mute jeremy
17:16:32 [Zakim]
JeremyC should now be muted
17:16:56 [jjc]
I don't believe we have made formal decisions about test process
17:17:30 [timfinin]
danc suggests we get some test cases, then develop the process for future approval
17:18:03 [timfinin]
we have two approved test cases and many proposed one and, says pfps, this reveals a problem.
17:19:03 [timfinin]
path describes potential problem -- test case might be approved in the context of some assumptions, but those assumptions are later changed.
17:19:15 [jjc]
zakim, unmute jeremy
17:19:17 [Zakim]
JeremyC should no longer be muted
17:19:18 [jjc]
q+
17:20:15 [timfinin]
jimh describes goal -- to have a document with test cases like the rdf test cases
17:20:37 [jjc]
zakim, who's talking
17:20:38 [DanC]
Zakim, who's talking?
17:20:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's talking', jjc. Try /msg Zakim help
17:20:39 [Zakim]
-Marwan_Sabbouh
17:20:41 [timfinin]
path -- maybe we can have a document of test cases w/o having to formally approve them
17:20:43 [jhendler]
zakim, who is speaking?
17:20:44 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, jhendler.
17:20:46 [timfinin]
beeping
17:20:49 [Zakim]
DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jim_Hendler (9%), Leo (9%)
17:20:54 [Zakim]
-Pat_Hayes
17:20:54 [Zakim]
-Heflin
17:20:56 [Zakim]
-Klein
17:21:03 [timfinin]
beeping stopped. whew
17:21:44 [DanC]
jjc, I actually haven't reviewed the tests you're proposing today. Do you know who has?
17:21:59 [jjc]
- Jos did
17:22:07 [DanC]
ah.
17:22:09 [jjc]
- Ian looked at them
17:22:12 [timfinin]
jimh wants a staw poll on test cases as put up by jjc today
17:22:46 [timfinin]
question: anyone opposed to approving the three test cases?
17:22:56 [libby]
what did jos think?
17:22:57 [timfinin]
opposed: pfps
17:23:09 [timfinin]
question: has anyone reviewed the test cases?
17:23:43 [timfinin]
jjc says that ianh didn't like the third test
17:24:01 [jjc]
the third test is not up for vote today
17:24:08 [timfinin]
pfps is the only objection
17:24:38 [timfinin]
jimh: peter -- is that a don't like or a can't live with?
17:25:01 [timfinin]
pfps: it's a can't live with, for now.
17:25:27 [timfinin]
pfps: I want to really look at the technical details of the tests, which I've not done.
17:26:30 [libby]
gotta run, bye
17:26:32 [Zakim]
-Libby
17:27:25 [timfinin]
discussion of the issue of acknowleding the fact that there might be errors in a test which could only be discovered after approval.
17:27:39 [timfinin]
pfps: "today, I can't live with approving the tests"
17:28:09 [timfinin]
jimh: call the question "approve the test cases as described in jjc's email"
17:28:16 [timfinin]
all opposed: pfps
17:28:22 [timfinin]
Abstain: chrisw
17:28:50 [timfinin]
jimh: we're out of time.
17:28:58 [Massimo]
it has to go in the final record only if the test case becomes part of a normative spec
17:29:02 [timfinin]
jimh: any more business
17:29:19 [timfinin]
MIke Smith?: will get copy of guide out by next tuesday or wednesday
17:29:31 [Zakim]
-M_Smith
17:29:32 [Zakim]
-Ian
17:29:39 [Zakim]
-Leo
17:29:40 [Zakim]
-LarryE
17:29:41 [Zakim]
-Chris
17:29:43 [Zakim]
-McGuinness
17:29:44 [Zakim]
-Jonathan
17:29:45 [Zakim]
-TimF.a
17:29:46 [Zakim]
-DanC
17:29:47 [Zakim]
-JeremyC
17:29:48 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
17:29:51 [timfinin]
resolved: test cases as proposed by jjc in email have been approved
17:29:51 [Zakim]
-TerHorst
17:29:58 [Zakim]
-Pfps
17:30:00 [Zakim]
-Jim_Hendler
17:30:01 [Zakim]
-Massimo
17:30:15 [timfinin]
end of telecon
17:30:21 [Zakim]
-Gibbins
17:30:33 [Zakim]
-Guus
17:30:34 [Zakim]
SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
17:46:03 [pfps]
pfps has left #webont