16:00:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webont
16:00:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webont
16:00:54 <DanCon> Zakim, this is WebO
16:00:55 <Zakim> ok, DanCon
16:01:12 <Zakim> +M_Smith
16:01:16 <Zakim> +??P45
16:01:18 <schreiber>  Zakim, ??P36 is GuusS
16:01:19 <Zakim> +GuusS; got it
16:01:20 <Zakim> +??P43
16:01:22 <DanCon> DanCon has changed the topic to: WebOnt 18Jul http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jul/0129.html
16:01:27 <mdean> mdean has joined #webont
16:01:27 <pfps> Zakim, ??P38 is pfps
16:01:28 <Zakim> +Pfps; got it
16:01:35 <Zakim> +Jim_Hendler
16:01:40 <Zakim> +John_Stanton
16:01:49 <jhendler> jhendler has joined #webont
16:02:26 <Zakim> +DanC
16:02:42 <Zakim> +??P50
16:03:18 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #webont
16:03:31 <jhendler> zakim, who is here?
16:03:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see GuusS, Ian_Horrocks, Pfps, ??P39, Mike_Dean, ??P41, ??P42, M_Smith, ??P45, ??P43, Jim_Hendler, John_Stanton, DanC, ??P50
16:03:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisW, jhendler, mdean, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanCon, pfps, IanH, herman, DDeRoure, schreiber, logger_1
16:03:59 <Zakim> +??P31
16:04:05 <ChrisW> I am here
16:04:28 <Zakim> +Leo
16:04:30 <DanCon> larryE, NickG, Herman, Jos D, Welty, McGuinnes
16:04:31 <schreiber> zakim, JosdeRoo is ??P39
16:04:33 <Zakim> sorry, schreiber, I do not recognize a party named 'JosdeRoo'
16:04:52 <schreiber> zakim, ??P39 is JosdeRoo
16:04:54 <Zakim> +JosdeRoo; got it
16:05:05 <jhendler> ziv hellman
16:05:06 <DanCon> Zakim, Ziv is here
16:05:07 <Zakim> sorry, DanCon, I do not recognize a party named 'Ziv'
16:05:14 <DeborahMc> DeborahMc has joined #webont
16:05:24 <Zakim> +JeffH
16:05:25 <DanCon> "Regrets: van Harmelen, Volz, Miller, Dale, Klein, Finin"
16:05:30 <DanCon> -- from the agenda
16:06:05 <DanCon> Guus: regrets Wallace, ....?
16:06:11 <jhendler> Attendance: Guus, Ian, Peter, Mike-Dean, Mike Smith, Jim Hendler, John Stanton, Dan C, Larry, Nick, Herman, Jos, Chris, Deb, Ziv, Leo, Jeff H
16:06:58 <jhendler> Previous minutes accepted. 
16:08:35 <jhendler> Minutes from f2f -- fixed the name space - extra "23" included
16:10:01 <jhendler> ACTION: chairs - find photo of face to face example from the discussion of model theory.
16:10:54 <nmg> nmg has joined #webont
16:14:48 <Zakim> -GuusS
16:15:19 <Zakim> + +1.850.202.aaaa - is perhaps PatH?
16:15:32 <jhendler> attandance: add Pat H.
16:15:51 <Zakim> +??P5
16:16:06 <jhendler> zakim, ??p5 is guus
16:16:07 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:16:38 <Zakim> +??P6
16:18:28 <jhendler> ACTION: Dan C. to work with Pat H to reconcile the issues of missing discussion of model theory in the log.
16:19:15 <jhendler> Resolved: accept the f2f minutes as a true record - but add the discussion of model theory breakout (see previous action)
16:19:25 <DanCon> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:19:26 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Leo
16:20:15 <jhendler> Attendance: Jeremy Carroll joined
16:20:23 <jhendler> ------- f2f discussion
16:20:51 <DanCon> Hi Pat (i.e. party from uwf.edu). try /nick PatH
16:21:06 <jhendler> Jeremy - what about hotel?   should we do the one near HP or the one downtown?
16:21:15 <jhendler> hotels are comparable.  
16:22:37 <DanCon> if I'm gonna go all the way to Bristol, I'd like access to a little bit of local culture. more than cows.
16:22:53 <jhendler> general opinion - try for city center
16:22:55 <ChrisW> how do you know there IS more
16:23:29 <jhendler> Guus: fifth face to face -- assuming our revised schedule is accepted we need to plan a 5th f2f.
16:23:34 <jhendler> and maybe 6th
16:24:07 <jhendler> 5th might want to be in Eastern US, probably in mid-Jan.
16:24:39 <Zakim> +??P7
16:25:05 <jhendler> attendance: Evan Wallace
16:27:03 <jhendler> We will take offers for one week - please send them to the mailing list.
16:27:58 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Borden
16:28:21 <jhendler> ACTION: Jim H will set up a straw poll based on the offers - this will include choices of Dec/Jan and place
16:28:32 <jhendler> Agenda+
16:28:40 <jhendler> ------------------
16:28:43 <jhendler> Action review
16:28:45 <PatH> Dan: I have the webpage. Where exactly should I be looking?
16:28:59 <jhendler> Action - DanC subclassOf - continued
16:29:14 <jhendler> Action - OWL name space - in progress
16:30:03 <DanCon> PatH: "report back of the Model Theory team" starts http://www.w3.org/2002/07/02-webont-irc#T23-02-33
16:30:12 <jhendler> Action - Pat Model theory - due July 25 - will be Aug 1
16:30:39 <jhendler> Action Guus - guide format - Continued
16:32:16 <jhendler> Action Evan - writeup of UML and OMG - continued - aim for July 25
16:32:28 <jhendler> Action Deb - write up issue re Unique names - completed
16:33:08 <DanCon> I played around with the DAML validator in the last couple days... it was very useful.
16:33:20 <DanCon> I found about 25 bugs in a web of 7 ontologies.
16:33:27 <jhendler> Action - Jim and Mike D - Owl validator - action handled. (Validator in practice)
16:33:41 <jhendler> Action - tools - EVERYONE DO THIS - continued
16:33:53 <JonB> JonB has joined #webont
16:34:05 <jhendler> Action Raphael - make large ontology available - continues
16:34:14 <jhendler> Action Hendler - test on issue 4.2 - cont
16:34:30 <jhendler> Action Welty - Unique name/Unambiguous - put on agenda for next week
16:34:57 <DanCon> yes, please let's add that to today's agenda
16:35:15 <jhendler> agenda+ try to close issue of uniquename
16:35:37 <DanCon> ACTION Patel-Schneider DONE.
16:35:42 <jhendler> action - peter - computational difficulties - done
16:36:05 <jhendler> action - connolly - use case for int. domain - done
16:36:25 <jhendler> action - Hays/Connolly - review abst syntax - Connolly done; Hays not done
16:36:29 <DanCon> Peter's action on example: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jul/0096.html
16:36:57 <jhendler> action - Hays withdrawn on review of Abst Synt
16:37:03 <jhendler> action - ter Horst - review - done.
16:37:04 <DanCon> re my action for int. domain http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jul/0132.html
16:37:19 <jhendler> -----------
16:37:31 <DanCon> ter horst review of ab syn: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jul/0090.html
16:37:34 <jhendler> agenda - item inserted - straw poll on uniq/unamb names
16:38:16 <jhendler> ChrisW - proposal -  names will be functionalProperty and inverseFunctionalProperty
16:38:51 <DanCon> proposed: FunctionalProperty and InverseFunctionalProperty
16:38:56 <DanCon> (note capitalization)
16:39:59 <jhendler> Chris - to date positive feedback - but no actual "against" 
16:40:26 <jhendler> DanC - some webbies prefer manytoone and onetomany - Dan says he prefers, Evan agrees w/Dan.
16:40:54 <DanCon> mikes point is a good one... TransitiveProperty is from math-speak.
16:41:15 <DeborahMc> is the complete listing:  transitiveProperty, functionalProperty, symmetricProperty, inverseFunctionalProperty
16:41:27 <jhendler> Evan - function means different things.  Chris - manytoone and onetomany seem to imply "many" but of course it can be 1-1 
16:41:39 <DanCon> DeborahMc, you're missing TransitiveProperty
16:41:45 <DanCon> oops; no you'ren ot.
16:42:37 <jhendler> Guus - maybe we've not yet seen all the proposals.
16:43:02 <jhendler> Ian - singleValuedProperty and InverseSingleValuedProperty
16:43:03 <DanCon> at the end of the day, this is an arbitrary decision; I'm greatful to Chris for taking the lead. I'm happy to offer him advice, and then I'm likely to accept whatever he proposes.
16:43:39 <jhendler> Guus - can you write a specific proposal for next week?
16:43:50 <jhendler> Chris - unclear - what do I do.
16:44:24 <jhendler> Dan - since you are issue owner, you choose your favorite, you propose that -- if it wins great, if not we return to the drawing board
16:44:24 <jhendler> -------------
16:44:26 <Zakim> -??P6
16:44:30 <jhendler> Agenda Item 3 - documents
16:44:43 <jhendler> Feature synopsis document
16:45:50 <jhendler> Deb - I still have to add "nothing" to the full language
16:46:15 <jhendler> Guus - have you dealt with issues from Peter?  Deb - working on them.  Some have questions I'd like discussion on:
16:47:15 <jhendler> 1) discussion of RDF - Deb - I describe what Owl does.   what is the issue?
16:48:13 <jhendler> Peter - I just mean that OWL shouldn't be called a logic language (i.e. all of logic) - suggest rewording.
16:48:23 <jhendler> Deb - I will weaken.
16:49:46 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #webont
16:50:01 <jhendler> Peter/Ian - we should have a definition of feature constructor?  
16:50:03 <DanCon> peter's comments: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jul/0089.html
16:50:04 <jhendler> Deb - should we use that term?
16:50:39 <jhendler> Ian - "class and property constructors?" - Deb, that's fine.
16:51:24 <jhendler> ACTION: Deb - add "property" to make sure we are using same terms.
16:53:52 <jhendler> ACTION: Deb to make sure names are same between her document and Mike's.  
16:57:17 <ChrisW> I coun't six grumbles
16:57:43 <jhendler> Jim - Peter, can you live with how it is? Peter - grumble, grumble, grumble, grumble (+ 2 more)
16:57:51 <jhendler> Peter - I guess so...
16:58:45 <ChrisW> YOU CAN ALWAYS GRUMBLE, Ian
16:59:52 <jhendler> RESOLVED: to release this document pending Deb's final edits and Dan's review thereof
17:00:07 <jhendler> Resolved - Abstain (Peter, Evan)
17:00:24 <jhendler> ACTION: DanC to review Deb's final edits of feature document.
17:00:33 <jhendler> ------
17:00:43 <jhendler> Mike Dean's document -
17:00:59 <DanCon> http://www.daml.org/2002/06/webont/owl-ref-proposed
17:01:06 <jhendler> There is a latest version 
17:01:24 <DanCon> $Id: 18-webont-irc.txt,v 1.37 2002/07/18 17:37:21 swick Exp $
17:01:46 <jhendler> main changes - incorporate what RDF has done (in collection)
17:02:02 <jhendler> some of the domain, range constraints changed by RDF
17:02:26 <DanCon> I 2nd the citing of the disjointUnionOf issue
17:02:43 <jhendler> cite two new issues - remove disjointunionof - issue of whether to have both rdfs:class and owl:class
17:03:05 <jhendler> Still addressing some issues Peter raised
17:03:19 <DanCon> the phrasing of the rdfs:class and owl:class issue... I disagree; seems close to my action on rdfs:subClassOf vs owl:subClassOf. I should follow up with mike on that..
17:03:20 <jhendler> http://www.daml.org/2002/06/webont/owl.owl is now a proposed namespace document
17:03:42 <jhendler> adds some example of use of dublin core with ontology.
17:03:59 <jhendler> will try to update examples, but maybe not until after publication.
17:04:29 <jhendler> ACTION: Mike will summarize changes in email to the list.  (by next week)
17:04:41 <jhendler> Guus - what about Peter's comments?
17:05:02 <jhendler> Mike - addressing them - have addressed the easy to fix ones, still working on others - will explain in the email
17:05:14 <jhendler> Mike - thanks to Peter for his feedback.
17:05:31 <jhendler> Dan - Mike are you asking for another week, instead of proposing to publish?? Mike, yes?
17:06:09 <jhendler> Deb - do you think any terms will change names?  Mike - no, unless we resolve the unambiguous stuff.
17:07:04 <pfps> q+
17:07:35 <DanCon> I don't think the WG has reviewed mikes doc as much as debs.
17:07:45 <jhendler> Mike - I can have a new version by Tuesday for us to approve next week.
17:07:52 <DanCon> i.e. the WG just delegated the rest of the synopsis to deb and me; that hasn't happened for the lang desc.
17:08:14 <pfps> q-
17:08:18 <jhendler> Peter - I want to look at the appendix in detail?  
17:08:39 <jhendler> Mike - would like the feedback
17:09:16 <jhendler> Mike - can I remove the OIL refs?  group concurs this is fine.
17:09:20 <DanCon> no opinion on removing "cf OWL OR"
17:09:28 <DanCon> (from me)
17:09:50 <jhendler> ACTION: Peter - will review appendix C.
17:10:01 <jhendler> rrsagent, actions?
17:10:01 <jhendler> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'actions'
17:10:39 <jhendler> rrsagent, show action items
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chairs - find photo of face to face example from the discussion of model theory. [1]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-10-01
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dan C. to work with Pat H to reconcile the issues of missing discussion of model theory in the log. [2]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-18-28
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jim H will set up a straw poll based on the offers - this will include choices of Dec/Jan and place [3]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-28-21
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Deb - add "property" to make sure we are using same terms. [4]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-51-24
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Deb to make sure names are same between her document and Mike's.   [5]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-53-52
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to review Deb's final edits of feature document. [6]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-00-24
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mike will summarize changes in email to the list.  (by next week) [7]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-04-29
17:10:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Peter - will review appendix C. [8]
17:10:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-09-50
17:11:57 <jhendler> Peter - reminder, we should move the owl.owl to the appropriate namespace - DanC working on that
17:11:59 <jhendler> ------------
17:12:06 <jhendler> 3.3 - Abstract Syntax document
17:13:16 <jhendler> correct URI - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jul/0093.html
17:13:35 <jhendler> which goes to -- http://www-db.research.bell-labs.com/user/pfps/owl/specification.html
17:13:50 <jhendler> Peter - Herman, did I address the things you cared about?
17:13:58 <jhendler> Herman  - I think it is okay
17:15:17 <jhendler> Peter - some other issues are problems with punctuation caused by mailers.
17:15:34 <jhendler> Guus - Dan, you were okay so far?  Peter - yes.
17:16:08 <jhendler> Peter - added examples, will check them carefully
17:16:42 <jhendler> Dan - I am okay with publishing this in the current form
17:17:14 <jhendler> Resolved - to release the Abstract Syntax document after final edits by Peter.
17:18:12 <jhendler> Resolution passes Abstention(Hendler)
17:18:50 <jhendler> --------------
17:21:01 <jhendler> Discussion of release of Mike's document.
17:21:52 <jhendler> Mike agrees changes are basically editorial
17:22:41 <jhendler> Resolved: to release Mike's document pending editorial changes and favorable review of Appendix C
17:22:54 <jhendler> RESOLVED:
17:23:11 <jhendler> Guus - I thank the editors for all the hard work (Jim H agrees)
17:25:01 <jhendler> Dan - 10 min extension to discuss press release.
17:25:06 <jhendler> Dan - Press release
17:25:16 <jhendler> 1) three bullets about why the world should care
17:25:32 <jhendler> 2) draft press release and have Janet Daley work w/it
17:25:44 <jhendler> 3) Costs money - so needs to be convinced it is worth her money
17:26:01 <jhendler> 4) quotes are hard - but can have endorsements page (we probably wouldn't do that)
17:26:10 <jhendler> 5) list members of org in press release
17:26:27 <jhendler> (doing endorsements for a WD is probably not needed)
17:26:51 <jhendler> This goes out on PR newswire.
17:27:10 <jhendler> does this tend to have good pickup?  Dan - tends to get picked up on web pubs
17:27:25 <jhendler> even w/o press release we tend to get pickup
17:29:03 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #webont
17:29:55 <jhendler> Resolution: W3C press release would be desirable - we endorse doing this.  Jim H to draft, limited time for WG to interact.
17:30:03 <jhendler> RESOLVED:
17:30:29 <Zakim> -??P42
17:30:40 <jhendler> ACTION: JimH to draft press release - solicits input ASAP from WG members.
17:30:47 <jhendler> -------
17:31:16 <jhendler> AOB
17:32:34 <DDeRoure> One item of AOB - Nick Gibbins was awarded his PhD at our graduation ceremony this afternoon :-)
17:32:56 <jhendler> Yay Nick!
17:33:09 <ChrisW> Congratulations!
17:33:26 <jhendler> WOWG adds our congrats to Nick.
17:33:53 <jhendler> ADJOURNED
17:33:59 <Zakim> -??P50
17:34:08 <Zakim> -M_Smith
17:34:09 <Zakim> -??P7
17:34:10 <Zakim> -Guus
17:34:11 <Zakim> -Pfps
17:34:12 <Zakim> -??P41
17:34:12 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
17:34:13 <Zakim> -JosdeRoo
17:34:14 <Zakim> -JeffH
17:34:14 <jhendler> rrsagent, what are the actions?
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items:
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chairs - find photo of face to face example from the discussion of model theory. [1]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-10-01
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dan C. to work with Pat H to reconcile the issues of missing discussion of model theory in the log. [2]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-18-28
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jim H will set up a straw poll based on the offers - this will include choices of Dec/Jan and place [3]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-28-21
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Deb - add "property" to make sure we are using same terms. [4]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-51-24
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Deb to make sure names are same between her document and Mike's.   [5]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-53-52
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to review Deb's final edits of feature document. [6]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-00-24
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mike will summarize changes in email to the list.  (by next week) [7]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-04-29
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Peter - will review appendix C. [8]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-09-50
17:34:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JimH to draft press release - solicits input ASAP from WG members. [9]
17:34:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-30-40
17:34:16 <Zakim> -??P31
17:34:18 <Zakim> -John_Stanton
17:34:20 <Zakim> -Leo
17:34:25 <Zakim> -??P45
17:35:20 <Zakim> -??P43
17:35:26 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks
17:35:52 <Zakim> -Jim_Hendler
17:35:53 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Borden
17:35:54 <Zakim> -PatH?
17:35:59 <Zakim> -DanC
17:36:00 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
17:36:01 <jhendler> rrsagent, bookmark
17:36:01 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-36-01
17:36:17 <jhendler> rrsagent, leave.
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items:
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chairs - find photo of face to face example from the discussion of model theory. [1]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-10-01
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dan C. to work with Pat H to reconcile the issues of missing discussion of model theory in the log. [2]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-18-28
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jim H will set up a straw poll based on the offers - this will include choices of Dec/Jan and place [3]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-28-21
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Deb - add "property" to make sure we are using same terms. [4]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-51-24
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Deb to make sure names are same between her document and Mike's.   [5]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T16-53-52
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to review Deb's final edits of feature document. [6]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-00-24
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mike will summarize changes in email to the list.  (by next week) [7]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-04-29
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Peter - will review appendix C. [8]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-09-50
17:36:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JimH to draft press release - solicits input ASAP from WG members. [9]
17:36:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/07/18-webont-irc#T17-30-40