IRC log of rdfcore on 2002-06-28
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:01:38 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rdfcore
- 14:01:41 [AaronSw]
- Zakim, Bristol has JanG, DaveB
- 14:01:42 [Zakim]
- +JanG, DaveB; got it
- 14:01:43 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 14:01:43 [Zakim]
- +EricM
- 14:01:54 [Zakim]
- +??P16
- 14:01:59 [AaronSw]
- Zakim, ??P15 is RonD
- 14:02:00 [Zakim]
- +RonD; got it
- 14:02:07 [AaronSw]
- zakim, ??P16 is HP
- 14:02:08 [Zakim]
- +HP; got it
- 14:02:13 [AaronSw]
- zakim, HP has Jeremy, Brian
- 14:02:15 [Zakim]
- +Jeremy, Brian; got it
- 14:02:20 [AaronSw]
- zakim, Bristol is ILRT
- 14:02:21 [Zakim]
- +ILRT; got it
- 14:02:23 [AaronSw]
- zakim, who's here?
- 14:02:25 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see PatH?, ILRT, AaronSw, GrahamK, EricM, RonD, HP
- 14:02:25 [Zakim]
- HP has Jeremy, Brian
- 14:02:25 [Zakim]
- ILRT has JanG, DaveB
- 14:02:26 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, em, bwm, danbri, Zakim, logger_1, AaronSw
- 14:02:46 [AaronSw]
- zakim, ericm is em
- 14:02:47 [bwm_]
- bwm_ has joined #rdfcore
- 14:02:47 [Zakim]
- +Em; got it
- 14:03:02 [bwm_]
- -
- 14:03:13 [AaronSw]
- zakim, brian is bwm
- 14:03:15 [Zakim]
- sorry, AaronSw, I do not recognize a party named 'brian'
- 14:03:21 [AaronSw]
- zakim, Brian is bwm
- 14:03:22 [Zakim]
- sorry, AaronSw, I do not recognize a party named 'Brian'
- 14:03:36 [AaronSw]
- zakim, propose a victim
- 14:03:38 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JanG
- 14:03:51 [AaronSw]
- when bwm talks it seems
- 14:03:54 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 14:04:04 [AaronSw]
- zakim, ??P14 is JosD
- 14:04:06 [Zakim]
- +JosD; got it
- 14:04:38 [AaronSw]
- zakim, who's here?
- 14:04:40 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see PatH?, ILRT, AaronSw, GrahamK, Em, RonD, HP, JosD
- 14:04:40 [Zakim]
- HP has Jeremy, Brian
- 14:04:41 [Zakim]
- ILRT has JanG, DaveB
- 14:04:42 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see bwm_, RRSAgent, em, bwm, danbri, Zakim, logger_1, AaronSw
- 14:04:50 [Zakim]
- +PatrickS
- 14:04:55 [jjc]
- jjc has joined #rdfcore
- 14:05:33 [em-scribe]
- -- roll call -- (see zakim above list)
- 14:05:59 [em-scribe]
- bwm: regrets, -> frank, guha
- 14:06:14 [em-scribe]
- review agenda...
- 14:06:19 [em-scribe]
- comments?
- 14:06:21 [em-scribe]
- no
- 14:06:38 [connolly]
- connolly has joined #rdfcore
- 14:07:21 [em-scribe]
- next telecon - Jul 12 (same time)
- 14:07:39 [em-scribe]
- hmm... perhaps i hit return too early...
- 14:08:00 [em-scribe]
- strike above
- 14:08:05 [em-scribe]
- next telecon - Jul 5 (same time)
- 14:08:16 [JosD]
- JosD has joined #rdfcore
- 14:08:31 [em-scribe]
- regrets as well from danbri
- 14:09:06 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: chase down danbri for notes
- 14:09:13 [Zakim]
- +??P18
- 14:09:25 [AaronSw]
- zakim, ??P18 is SteveP
- 14:09:27 [Zakim]
- +SteveP; got it
- 14:09:40 [AaronSw]
- heh
- 14:09:48 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: made a lot of good progress
- 14:09:56 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: XMLP review
- 14:10:06 [Zakim]
- +Mike_Dean
- 14:10:07 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: danbri and dave have agreed to work on this
- 14:12:01 [em-scribe]
- jjc: perhaps i'll look into this as well
- 14:13:47 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: danbri to coordinate comments (include danbri, daveb)
- 14:13:57 [mdean]
- mdean has joined #rdfcore
- 14:15:26 [Zakim]
- +DanBri
- 14:16:09 [em-scribe]
- agenda: F2F Review
- 14:16:12 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 14:16:34 [em-scribe]
- em-scribe: can you explain the purpose of the new suggested doc
- 14:17:24 [em-scribe]
- gk: there was various issues that seemed to be missing from various docs and this was supposed to be something that addressed this?
- 14:19:28 [em-scribe]
- gk: from f2f meeting we agreed that there was content that was not captured by exisitig docs
- 14:19:41 [connolly]
- anybody got an example of one of these "not captured by MT/syntax/schema" things?
- 14:20:02 [em-scribe]
- gk: agreed to (a) produce an outline a (b) supporting text that trys to agree to provide some text to this
- 14:21:25 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: we where having a discussion of where oto but the specification of the graph systax
- 14:24:18 [jjc]
- eric: datatypes tidy or untidy
- 14:24:36 [DanC]
- "The WG decided to aim for last call on 26th Aug 2002" <- ugh; so we need *another* extension, past Sep 2002. oh well, the Sep 2002 thing never quite got finished anyway.
- 14:24:40 [jjc]
- bwm: guha gave new analysis of datatype problem
- 14:25:07 [jjc]
- bwm: decision made that bwm would write note on tidy/unitdy issue
- 14:25:48 [DanC]
- oops; there it is: "# log The WG decided that a description of RDF(S) semantics in Lbase should be added as a non-normative appendix to the model theory document (provided it is ready in time) which should be renamed RDF Formal Semantics (or similar). Lbase will be published as a w3c note."
- 14:25:52 [jjc]
- eric: lbase?
- 14:26:34 [jjc]
- bwm: w3c note from ??? , not from the WG
- 14:27:58 [danbri]
- I have a rough cut of a note-ified lbase doc, http://www.w3.org/2002/06/lbase/ ("not a note")
- 14:29:17 [DanC]
- but their views are wrong! 1/2 :-)
- 14:31:03 [DanC]
- we need explicit license from anybody listed as "editor" to release this particular text under their name.
- 14:31:24 [sergey]
- sergey has joined #rdfcore
- 14:31:49 [sergey]
- Hi, sorry, today I'm on IRC only...
- 14:33:32 [DanC]
- Hi sergey, I think we're on "9) F2F Review" still.
- 14:34:37 [em-scribe]
- agenda - Procedure for determining reserved vocabulary
- 14:35:00 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: can we do this without guha? he did send message about 3 options
- 14:35:14 [em-scribe]
- JosD: very unsure at the moment
- 14:35:31 [em-scribe]
- JosD: note that euler does not need such a thing
- 14:35:57 [DanC]
- guha's msg: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Jun/0205.html
- 14:36:43 [em-scribe]
- DanC (daveb) : i hate all of these; but if we have to pick one lets use the one from the original spec
- 14:37:04 [danbri]
- or at least the same technique, though we have a different meaning and I'd expect a different URI
- 14:37:05 [em-scribe]
- which is #1 (with http://www....)
- 14:38:53 [DanC]
- we haven't made any decisions on this issue, Graham; rejecting or otherwise.
- 14:41:18 [danbri]
- example: http://www.w3.org/2002/unassertionalproperty/http://mymetadatainitiative.example.com/entails
- 14:45:43 [DanC]
- I'd prefer to just fess up and change RDF/xml syntax, rather than sneak it into a magic worm-hole in URI space.
- 14:46:04 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: i'm hearing a weak preference for #2 (with this prefix... ala : http://www.w3.org/2002/unassertionalproperty/http://mymetadatainitiative.example.com/entails) take this to list for dsicussion
- 14:47:13 [JosD]
- DanC, I agree with that; we did a test with owl_: prefixes, but still...
- 14:47:14 [em-scribe]
- ACTION: jjc, write a message about possible bug in guha's option #2 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Jun/0205.html
- 14:47:46 [em-scribe]
- agendaitem - Datatypes
- 14:49:58 [DanC]
- er... whoa... if A is noise, I don't know what's going on, and the best I can do is abstain on this.
- 14:50:10 [DanC]
- pointer to this bit of magic from guha?
- 14:51:59 [em-scribe]
- propose: bwm to send http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Jun/0266.html out to list
- 14:52:23 [em-scribe]
- ron: is it an important use of our chairs time to keep rewriting this?
- 14:55:33 [em-scribe]
- against - patrick
- 14:55:39 [em-scribe]
- abstain - danc
- 14:55:45 [em-scribe]
- rest agree
- 14:55:54 [em-scribe]
- teleconference extension?
- 14:56:00 [em-scribe]
- for 15 min?
- 14:56:03 [em-scribe]
- ok
- 14:56:16 [em-scribe]
- agenda item - Review outline of new document.
- 14:57:21 [em-scribe]
- gk: get material on material on the table and then figure out if and where this belogs
- 14:58:14 [DanC]
- skimming it, I like the structure... stuff like "2.2.3 Extensible URI-based vocabulary" is good to have around.
- 15:01:21 [em-scribe]
- q+
- 15:01:38 [JosD]
- DanC, re pointer to Guha magic http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2002-06-18.html#T10-25-37
- 15:02:16 [em-scribe]
- q-
- 15:02:36 [DanC]
- if having the matter-of-fact discussion of containers in this document would allow the primer to get radically shorter, I'm all for that.
- 15:07:46 [em-scribe]
- q+
- 15:08:43 [bwm_]
- ack em-scribe
- 15:09:59 [DanC]
- when the community was small and everybody knew why we were doing various technologies in the specs, sparse formal docs were the shortest route to the target. I now think the community is large enough that a certain amount of design principles is cost-effective.
- 15:10:40 [AaronSw]
- i'd be happy with a primer that did "make an rdf thing in 15 min" as part 1 and saved part 2 for the discursive material
- 15:10:47 [AaronSw]
- but give them the instant gratification first
- 15:10:57 [DanC]
- yes, the primer should be about instant gratification
- 15:11:21 [AaronSw]
- K&R works this way, for example. chapter 1 is a tutorial, then it gets deeper with each successive chapter
- 15:11:46 [bwm_]
- thats a nice model
- 15:14:08 [Zakim]
- -SteveP
- 15:14:10 [DanC]
- yes, let's lock ericm and Graham in a corner until they come out happy
- 15:14:23 [AaronSw]
- i'm all about an RDF QuickStartGuide ala http://logicerror.com/taxo-quick-start
- 15:14:34 [DanC]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:14:36 [Zakim]
- DanC should now be muted
- 15:15:29 [AaronSw]
- i still hear the racing cars
- 15:16:23 [DanC]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:16:25 [Zakim]
- DanC should no longer be muted
- 15:17:49 [em-scribe]
- ACTION: bwm, get editors together, review content of http://www.ninebynine.org/wip/RDF-basics/Current/Overview.htm
- 15:18:11 [em-scribe]
- bwm_: meeting adjourned
- 15:18:18 [Zakim]
- -JosD
- 15:18:27 [Zakim]
- -DanBri
- 15:18:35 [em-scribe]
- after hours discussions.....
- 15:18:38 [Zakim]
- -Em
- 15:18:41 [Zakim]
- -RonD
- 15:21:00 [em]
- RRSAgent, pointer?
- 15:21:00 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2002/06/28-rdfcore-irc#T15-21-00
- 15:22:30 [bwm__]
- bwm__ has joined #rdfcore
- 15:24:46 [em]
- RRSAgent, please leave.
- 15:24:46 [RRSAgent]
- I see 2 action items:
- 15:24:46 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jjc, write a message about possible bug in guha's option #2 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2002Jun/0205.html [1]
- 15:24:46 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/06/28-rdfcore-irc#T14-47-14
- 15:24:46 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: bwm, get editors together, review content of http://www.ninebynine.org/wip/RDF-basics/Current/Overview.htm [2]
- 15:24:46 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2002/06/28-rdfcore-irc#T15-17-49