15:46:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webont
15:52:40 <jhendler> jhendler has joined #webont
15:54:15 <jjc> jjc has joined #webont
15:54:33 <DanC_> Hi Jeremy; all set to take minutes?
15:54:45 <jjc> just about - ....
15:57:36 <jjc> what's the ntelecon number?
15:58:10 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started
15:58:16 <Zakim> +John_Stanton
15:58:54 <Zakim> +DanC
15:59:29 <Zakim> +Jim_Hendler
15:59:42 <Zakim> +Stein
16:00:12 <DanC_> tel:+1-617-761-6200;postd=9326
16:00:15 <timfinin> timfinin has joined #webont
16:00:24 <Zakim> +??P14
16:00:37 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P14 is JeremyC
16:00:39 <Zakim> +JeremyC; got it
16:00:48 <lasLaptop> lasLaptop has joined #webont
16:00:56 <DanC_> Zakim, jjc is JeremyC
16:00:58 <Zakim> sorry, DanC_, I do not recognize a party named 'jjc'
16:01:00 <Zakim> +??P18
16:01:04 <Zakim> +NickG
16:01:13 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P18 is Rudiger
16:01:14 <Zakim> +Rudiger; got it
16:01:17 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Stanton, DanC, Jim_Hendler, Stein, JeremyC, Rudiger, NickG
16:01:31 <Zakim> +Marwan_Sabbouh
16:01:51 <Zakim> +M_Smith
16:01:52 <Zakim> +??P30
16:02:07 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P30 is TimFinin
16:02:09 <Zakim> +TimFinin; got it
16:02:13 <Zakim> -Stein
16:02:17 <JosD> JosD has joined #webont
16:02:19 <Zakim> +Stein
16:02:45 <Zakim> +??P35
16:02:50 <Zakim> +Leo
16:03:01 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P35 is ZivH
16:03:02 <Zakim> +ZivH; got it
16:03:08 <Zakim> +??P40
16:03:08 <Zakim> +JeffH
16:03:20 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P40 is JosDeRoo
16:03:22 <Zakim> +JosDeRoo; got it
16:03:31 <DanC_> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Stanton, DanC, Jim_Hendler, JeremyC, Rudiger, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, M_Smith, TimFinin, Stein, ZivH, Leo, JosDeRoo, JeffH
16:04:10 <jhendler> regrets from van Harmelen, McGuinness, dean, patel-schneider, trastour, miller 
16:04:51 <jhendler> regrets tabet, buswell
16:05:18 <DanC_> documents: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/ftf3.html#What:
16:05:22 <Zakim> +Goto
16:06:09 <DanC_> Zakim, Goto is JonathanDale
16:06:10 <Zakim> +JonathanDale; got it
16:07:23 <jjcscribe> Agenda: roll call as above
16:07:24 <Zakim> +??P0
16:07:27 <jhendler> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/att-0173/01-OWLFeatureSynopsis.htm
16:07:36 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P0 is ChrisWelty
16:07:38 <Zakim> +ChrisWelty; got it
16:07:44 <jjcscribe> Zakim, ??P0is ChrisW
16:07:45 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P0is ChrisW', jjcscribe.  Try /msg Zakim help
16:07:48 <Zakim> +??P1
16:07:49 <jono> jono has joined #webont
16:07:54 <jjcscribe> Zakim, ??P0 is ChrisW
16:07:55 <Zakim> sorry, jjcscribe, I do not recognize a party named '??P0'
16:08:09 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P1 is DebM
16:08:10 <Zakim> +DebM; got it
16:08:29 <DanC_> [[
16:08:30 <DanC_> SUNDAY JUNE 30
16:08:30 <DanC_> 20:00 (or whenever) - Optional no host gathering at a local wine
16:08:30 <DanC_> tasting/cafe/restaurant in Palo Alto.
16:08:30 <DanC_> Niebaum-Coppola - http://www.paloaltoshop.com/pages/niebaum.html , 473
16:08:30 <DanC_> University Ave., Palo Alto, California. Phone: (650) 752-0350
16:08:31 <DanC_> ]]
16:08:35 <DanC_> -- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/ftf3.html#What:2
16:08:37 <jjcscribe> DebM: will be social event monday night
16:09:27 <Zakim> +??P20
16:09:29 <jjcscribe> owl lite synopsis
16:09:41 <jjcscribe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/att-0173/01-OWLFeatureSynopsis.htm
16:09:45 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P20 is HermanT
16:09:46 <Zakim> +HermanT; got it
16:10:05 <Zakim> +??P25
16:10:07 <Zakim> -Leo
16:10:08 <jjcscribe> JimH: change is naming to OWLLite from Level 1
16:10:29 <DanC_> Zakim, ??P25 is Guus
16:10:30 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:10:50 <Zakim> +Leo
16:10:51 <jjcscribe> Zakim, who's on the phone
16:10:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', jjcscribe.  Try /msg Zakim help
16:11:05 <jjcscribe> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:11:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Stanton, DanC, Jim_Hendler, JeremyC, Rudiger, NickG, Marwan_Sabbouh, M_Smith, TimFinin, Stein, ZivH, JosDeRoo, JeffH, JonathanDale, ChrisWelty, DebM,
16:11:09 <Zakim> ... HermanT, Guus, Leo
16:11:24 <jjcscribe> No comments on that issue or on document
16:11:34 <jhendler> ---------
16:11:36 <jhendler> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/att-0124/01-owl-ref-proposed.html
16:13:36 <jjcscribe> authos of DAML+OIL document have been included by default
16:13:59 <DanC_> DanC is happy to be listed as editor/author/whatever.
16:14:06 <jjcscribe> DanC and LynnC confirmed at this meeting
16:14:14 <DanC_> (I'm not sure W3C process allows "author"; I'd have to check that)
16:14:56 <jhendler> -------------------------------
16:15:05 <jjcscribe> Next doc
16:15:13 <jhendler> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/att-0118/01-specification.html
16:15:40 <DanC_> "# Formal Specification of the OWL Web Ontology Language"
16:15:48 <DanC_> ??? introductory?
16:17:42 <jhendler> danC_ - I'm not sure what you mean by "introductory"
16:18:15 <jjcscribe> concern about removal opf restrictions with unusual features
16:18:22 <Zakim> -DebM
16:18:32 <jjcscribe> DanC I never minded allowing them
16:19:39 <jjcscribe> JeremyC: I can't see any problem having these constraints
16:19:53 <jjcscribe> Qu: is this going to be normative?
16:20:03 <jjcscribe> Ans: this will be released as a working draft
16:21:19 <jjcscribe> ?? I would like to see the abstract sysntax eventually replaced by the owl triple syntax
16:21:34 <DanC_> I'm confused by this: "This document contains neither a presentation syntax nor an exchange syntax for OWL. An XML presentation syntax may be defined, as an XML schema."
16:22:06 <jjcscribe> ?? The normal model is for the concrete syntax to map to the abstracxt syntax, and then the semantics is defined on the abstract syntax
16:22:30 <jjcscribe> DanC: confusion about role of XML schema
16:23:25 <jjcscribe> Lots of people: title should be abstract syntax
16:23:38 <DanC_> I don't know what I would send to the mailing list. just "I don't see the purpose of this document"?
16:24:02 <lasLaptop> jjcscribe, I just noticed that (above) you confirmed "DanC and LynnC" authorship of owl-ref-proposed.html....I'm LynnS :o)
16:24:16 <jjcscribe> sorry :(
16:24:52 <jjcscribe> Jos: where is the elsewhere where the formal meaning will be described
16:25:11 <jjcscribe> There was a mail message ...
16:26:50 <jhendler> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/0082.html
16:27:16 <jjcscribe> Jeremy: the abstract syntax detaches the semantics from the triples
16:29:39 <jjcscribe> Jeremy: the triples are in the domain of discourse
16:29:56 <jjcscribe> DanC: prefer to define semantics on top of triple
16:30:13 <jjcscribe> ChrisW: the sbatrcat syntax is much clearer for humans to read and write
16:31:27 <jjcscribe> Once we have identified the space using the abstract syntax will allow us to then define the mapping from the exchange syntax to the abstract
16:31:57 <jjcscribe> LynnS: some docs for outside users, some for the WG
16:34:17 <lasLaptop> Um, I think I also said:  for the WG, we ultimately need something that goes from owl-as-used to semantics, and this document only goes part of that way.
16:34:43 <jjcscribe> JimH: why can't we use the expressions from MikeD's doc?
16:34:55 <jjcscribe> JeffH: RDF has lots of variants
16:35:12 <jjcscribe> JeremyC: RDF/XML has lots of choices, the graph is the same in all cases
16:36:47 <jjcscribe> DanC: I don't understand what this is about
16:36:53 <jjcscribe> ChrisW I find it very useful
16:36:59 <jjcscribe> Jeff I find it useufl
16:37:20 <jjcscribe> ACTION jimH summarize thsi discussion to mailing list
16:37:37 <jjcscribe> Jeff I am not sure I would publish it though
16:38:16 <schreiber> q+
16:38:18 <jjcscribe> ChrisW something like this should be published
16:38:47 <jjcscribe> someone: we also need the model theory
16:39:14 <jjcscribe> you can't read the model theory without the abstract syntax
16:39:25 <jjcscribe> you can read teh abstract syntax without model theory
16:39:55 <jjcscribe> Hermann: this is close to being publishable
16:40:13 <DanC_> evidence that we don't need an abstract syntax (other that RDF graph syntax) to do our model theory: # layering (5.3,5.10): a first-order same-syntax model theory Dan Connolly (Wed, Jun 19 2002) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/0152.html
16:40:14 <jjcscribe> Guus: is the presentation syntax related to the abstract syntax?
16:40:25 <jjcscribe> JimH: Peter has said yes.
16:40:59 <jjcscribe> Jeremy I would like publication
16:41:13 <jhendler> ---------
16:41:25 <jhendler> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/att-0086/01-reqdoc.html
16:41:50 <jjcscribe> some reviews saying its OK
16:42:26 <jjcscribe> JimH: at the f2f we will propose publication
16:44:18 <jjcscribe> ACTION jeff e-mail list to indicate imminent publication of reqdoc
16:46:35 <jjcscribe> any other issus for f2f?
16:46:46 <jjcscribe> JeremyC: scope of TEST?
16:46:58 <jjcscribe> JimH, DanC: yes that is on the agenda?
16:48:05 <jjcscribe> quick action review ...
16:48:12 <jjcscribe> not scribed properly
16:48:38 <DanC_> pls continue: ACTION: Dan Connolly: to produce two test cases: (1) (classes as instances)
16:48:38 <DanC_> from requirements document (2) oracle data base example
16:49:01 <jjcscribe> DanC set up cvs access
16:49:15 <DanC_> DONE: Jeremy Carroll: will also produce a test case
16:49:33 <jjcscribe> delete last line
16:49:37 <DanC_> for reference, 20 Jun minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Jun/0168.html
16:49:53 <Zakim> -ChrisWelty
16:49:56 <jjcscribe> DanC and JeremyC will continue after telecon to do CVS access issue
16:50:37 <jjcscribe> no telecon next week (4th July)
16:50:58 <jjcscribe> Next telecon july 11th
16:51:29 <jjcscribe> social event on sunday and monday
16:51:37 <Zakim> -M_Smith
16:51:38 <Zakim> -TimFinin
16:51:39 <jjcscribe> meeting adjorned
16:51:40 <Zakim> -Marwan_Sabbouh
16:51:41 <Zakim> -Stein
16:51:44 <Zakim> -ZivH
16:51:45 <Zakim> -Leo
16:51:45 <jono> sunday night: Optional no host gathering at a local wine tasting/cafe/restaurant in Palo Alto. Niebaum-Coppola - http://www.paloaltoshop.com/pages/niebaum.html , 473 University Ave., Palo Alto, California. Phone: (650) 752-0350
16:51:47 <Zakim> -Guus
16:51:50 <Zakim> -JosDeRoo
16:51:51 <Zakim> -HermanT
16:51:51 <DanC_> jeremy, wanna stay here? or separate call?
16:51:54 <Zakim> -JeffH
16:51:55 <Zakim> -NickG
16:52:03 <Zakim> -Jim_Hendler
16:52:08 <Zakim> -JonathanDale
16:52:12 <DanC_> tel:+1-913-491-0501 <- my office phone
16:52:17 <DanC_> logger_1, pointer?
16:52:18 <logger_1> See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/webont/2002-06-27#T16-52-17
16:52:49 <Zakim> -JeremyC
16:52:51 <Zakim> -DanC
16:52:56 <DanC_> RRSAgent, pointer?
16:52:56 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2002/06/27-webont-irc#T16-52-56
16:53:05 <Zakim> -John_Stanton
16:53:10 <Zakim> -Rudiger
16:53:11 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
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