07:13:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-paris
07:13:44 <hugo> hugo has changed the topic to: WSAWG & WSDWG joint face-to-face meeting
07:14:03 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #ws-paris
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07:22:35 <plh-paris> who is taking minutes?
07:23:56 <hugo> IRC log at: http://www.w3.org/2002/06/12-ws-paris-irc
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07:33:59 <mikem> WSA comments to WSD requirements: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-arch/2002May/0227.html
07:36:13 <hugo> Gudge, can you close the roof? apparently, you are next to the buttons
07:36:25 <hugo> please, pretty please 
07:37:29 <jjm> hugo, u not tried  http://www.lechangeur.com/room24/services.wsdl  ?
07:37:49 <soliton> is chris's presentation on a URL?
07:38:00 <hugo> yes, it said to talk to Gudge
07:38:36 <jjm> gudge.wsdl?
07:38:43 <jjm> ;-)
07:39:31 <hugo> Travel agent stuff: http://www.w3.org/2002/06/ws-example
07:40:01 <hugo> EDI use case: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002May/att-0323/02-WS-EDI_Use_Case.htm
07:41:13 <Roger> Roger has joined #ws-paris
07:41:22 <jjm> LOL
07:44:27 <jjm> btw, i thought output only operations had been deprecated as of yesterday
07:44:30 <jjm> ;-)
07:45:36 <jeffsch> always the comedian :-)
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08:25:49 <plh-paris> Jonathan's presentation: http://www.w3.org/2002/06/WSDupdate.html
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08:27:46 <jjm> hi chris
08:27:54 <chris> hey:)
08:28:03 <jjm> u quiet today
08:28:12 <hugo> chris, is your presentation on the Web?
08:28:24 <mikem> mikem has joined #ws-paris
08:28:40 <chris> not yet, will upload after I slurp my email
08:29:25 <plh-paris> chris: can you resend your message regarding comments from arch to desc to www-ws-desc?
08:29:42 <jjm> +1
08:29:54 <chris> yup, will do
08:31:04 <chris> can I just send the all.htm and you build the slides? rather than I upload 11 slides...
08:31:20 <hugo> chris, sure
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08:38:30 <hugo> chris, actually, I guess that the all.htm should be enough
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08:47:50 <chris> uri for Chris's presentation at joint session: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/06/wsawg-1000ft-jun2002.html
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08:54:16 <chris> sent email re: WSAWG f/b on WSD Requirements doc to w3c-ws-desc list
08:57:34 <hugo> I have updated my travel agent usage^H^H^He case already to have the correct title
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08:58:01 <chris> let it be recorded, this day, june 12, 2002 ad that the joint meeting of the WSD and WSA WGs has chosen the term "Use Case" to mean the high-level story thingy and "Usage Scenario" as the lower-level thingy
08:58:42 <MChapman> wots a thingy?
08:59:25 <jjm> your output buffer full?
09:00:00 <jeffm> That's what happens when a 1 element push down stack gets pushed too hard
09:01:40 <plh-paris> chris: why w3c-ws-desc instead of www-ws-desc?
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09:09:51 <chris> plh-paris: actually sent to both lists
09:10:22 <chris> oops, actually, I meant sent to both member lists. didn't send to www-ws-desc but will gladly do
09:10:30 <chris> so if that is what people want
09:10:51 <plh-paris> well, that's the way the desc group works at least.
09:10:59 <jeffm> and the crowd roars ....
09:11:00 <chris> okay then
09:11:02 <dbooth> I was wondering who is scribe this morning.
09:11:19 <chris> I guess it has kind of been me...
09:12:27 <dbooth> Thanks Chris!
09:12:31 <chris> done
09:12:40 <chris> (sent to www-ws-desc I mean)
09:13:01 <Heather> Heather has joined #ws-paris
09:13:22 <chris> hey heather...
09:13:37 <chris> we're figuring out how to do this
09:13:54 <dbooth> Phone: Alternate Phone Numbers
09:13:54 <dbooth> 33-13930-7501
09:13:57 <chris> dialing...
09:13:58 <dietmar> dietmar has joined #ws-paris
09:14:12 <plh-paris> chris: I "forwarded" the message from w3t-arch in www-ws-desc.
09:14:24 <dbooth> Passcode: 938462 and then press #
09:14:38 <chris> heather, u there?
09:14:44 <chris> we're on the call
09:14:47 <dbooth> Heather, the phone should be active now.
09:15:03 <Heather> hi t
09:15:03 <chris> yooohooo...
09:15:20 <dbooth> Heather, we cannot hear you.
09:15:38 <chris> this is not a good sign...
09:15:53 <Heather> can you hear me saying hello?
09:15:58 <soliton> no
09:16:03 <plh-paris> we're calling back :-]
09:16:04 <tjordahl> yes, we could
09:16:05 <soliton> redialing
09:16:06 <Heather> i can't hear you either...
09:16:10 <dbooth> Heather, we are dialing again.
09:16:19 <soliton> hi, heather, this is Hao
09:16:24 <chris> say something
09:16:33 <chris> nevermind...
09:16:39 <Heather> i said hello
09:16:44 <plh-paris> oops (again)
09:16:55 <Heather> is someone taking minutes into IRC so I can follow the discussion?
09:17:13 <Gudge> we can just about hear you 
09:17:15 <dbooth> Heather, we're on the phone again now.
09:17:20 <dbooth> Can you hear us?
09:17:41 <chris> yeah, okay
09:18:05 <chris> you want to lurk? I'll try to keep the jist of the discussion
09:18:57 <Heather> yes, that would be great
09:19:01 <chris> generated document format for use cases, seems to be acceptable
09:19:03 <Heather> do you have a scribe?
09:19:14 <Gudge> it's chris ;-) 
09:19:34 <scribe> davidb: suggests use of CVS for repository
09:19:42 <scribe> daniel: you didn't mention that
09:19:54 <scribe> daveo: ahhh, but that's what we were thinking
09:20:07 <scribe> daniel: didn't want this all scattered all over the place
09:20:26 <scribe> jon: yeah, but they have URIs and are on the web...
09:20:47 <scribe> daniel:what about other wg's in the activity, have they signed up?
09:21:18 <Heather> CVS for document repository?
09:21:23 <scribe> chris: xmlp is just publishing their work as a note, then they're done
09:21:36 <scribe> daveo: just a question of whether we want to do that or not
09:21:37 <Gudge> Yes, CVS for doc repos 
09:21:55 <scribe> daniel: same thread, are we thinking about relationship with WS-I?
09:22:16 <scribe> jeff: yes
09:22:39 <scribe> chris: let's not go there...
09:22:58 <scribe> jeff: talking about org to org not productive, rather about wg to wg
09:23:10 <scribe> jon: if we're done, let's move on
09:23:17 <scribe> daveo: want to bring up issue
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09:23:51 <scribe> daveo: currently there are architectural extensions that drive requirements, that i put in place in doc for wsawg ease of use, is this okay?
09:24:18 <scribe> daniel: to be consistent, separate it out, but suggest you leave in
09:24:25 <scribe> daveo: okay
09:24:53 <scribe> jon: question about ws-i and what we do at wg level.
09:25:57 <scribe> jon: wsdwg relationship is: we have deliverables and we put them out for public review, we ask specific wgs and other groups to review. we can and should notify WS-I about document we want reviewed. we have public comments list and process in place to get our docs to ws-i.
09:26:43 <scribe> jon: from other side, presumably they'll have feedback alias that we can send f/b to... just need commitment to review their stuff (when made public)
09:28:59 <scribe> chris: same warm bodies fill the wgs from both orgs
09:29:15 <scribe> jeffm: agree, but would be nice to know that coordination is happening
09:29:47 <Heather> I don't think its enough to have an informal stealth collaboration
09:29:50 <scribe> chris: w3c work is public domain
09:30:07 <scribe> daveo: difference in schedules and deliverables of 2 groups
09:30:15 <Heather> It will work better if someONE knows they are responsible for keeping up with both groups and coordinating 
09:30:30 <Heather> and feeding back potential conflicts and differences
09:30:48 <Heather> and the rest of the group knows who to go to 
09:31:16 <kevinL> agreed, some dedicated contacts from both group will really help
09:31:20 <Heather> I would volunteer
09:31:26 <scribe> yeah!
09:32:13 <jeffm> the chair of the wsi basic profile is on WSD
09:32:24 <jeffm> the editor of the wsi scenarios doc is on the WSA
09:32:31 <plh-paris> jeff: not for a long time
09:32:45 <plh-paris> (for the chair of wsi basic profile)
09:32:53 <jeffm> oops, you're right
09:33:28 <Heather> Yes, there is lots of informal cross polinization and thats a 'good thing'
09:33:33 <jeffm> I am not in favor of appointing "liason" people at this point
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09:33:58 <Heather> but for scenarios at least, there should be someone both sides can go to who is actively looking for collaborations and issues
09:34:40 <Heather> Jeff: Why?
09:36:35 <scribe> reolved for wsd: commit to review relevant deliverables of WS-I and notify them when we ship deliverable
09:36:48 <scribe> s/reolved/resolved/
09:37:38 <Heather> Is wsarch's scenario group going to have a closer relationship?
09:38:17 <scribe> resolved for wsa: commit to review relevant deliverables of WS-I and notify them when we ship deliverable. will also assign Heather K and Martin C as contact points for coordination questions between WSAWG and WS-I use cases team
09:38:49 <Heather> ok
09:39:05 <scribe> roger: what about ebXML people... there was some traffic and there may be a problem there
09:39:34 <scribe> jon: its in our charter
09:41:56 <scribe> add a note to 3.2 in arch requirements...
09:42:12 <scribe> don't want to go there, need ac review to change charter
09:42:40 <scribe> daveo: fact that it isnt in charter, we can interpret to extend in that regard
09:43:34 <scribe> jon: calls for objections to wsd resolution?
09:43:44 <scribe> hugo: commit kind of scares me...
09:43:59 <scribe> <some suggest that hugo is afraid of commitment:)>
09:44:52 <scribe> hugo: what is the level of "commitment" when faced with review of W3C LC doc and review of WS-I doc, eg.
09:45:00 <scribe> jon: thinks it is basically the same...
09:45:28 <scribe> jon: we commit to notice:)
09:46:06 <scribe> jon: recalls the question on the objections?
09:46:43 <scribe> <none>
09:47:13 <scribe> jon: recalls question of resolution for wsa...
09:47:18 <scribe> <no objections>
09:47:22 <scribe> both motions pass
09:48:34 <scribe> jon: reviews review of requirements feedback, essentially, all points of possible overlap or misalignment identified by MikeM are in alignment w/r/t current drafts of respective requirements docs
09:48:54 <scribe> <some administrivia about which group goes where after lunch>
09:49:01 <scribe> adjourned
09:49:30 <Heather> are we going to try to fix the phone now? or at the end of the lunch break?
09:49:50 <scribe> after lunch I think...
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09:53:03 <Heather> when whould I dial in?
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09:53:20 <chris> when you notice the irc traffic picking up?
09:53:39 <chris> I would think about 75 mins from now or so...
09:53:48 <Heather> ok... I'll watch for you
09:53:59 <chris> go get some coffee:)
09:54:01 <Heather> good, that'll give ME time to get breakfast!
09:54:28 <jjm> s/ME/MEP/
09:54:30 <jjm> ;-)
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11:38:50 <Roger> Heather -- are you there?
11:39:46 <Roger> Heather - we are about to start up again.
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11:42:32 <GlenD> My work here is done.
11:42:35 <GlenD> GlenD has left #ws-paris
11:42:35 <jeffm> where is gudge?
11:42:41 <plh-paris> plh-paris has left #ws-paris
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11:43:28 <jeffm> where's the "stuff"?
11:43:58 <Gudge> http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~alandale/dmjava/ 
11:46:49 <Heather> Heather's here
11:46:59 <Heather> should I dial in?
11:48:30 <chris> chris has joined #ws-paris
11:49:33 <sanjiva> u should prolly join ws-arch
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11:50:16 <Gudge> /leave 
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11:51:31 <Roger> Heather, are you there?
11:51:44 <Roger> Sorry, we don't have a phone here.
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11:52:32 <Heather> bummer
11:52:48 <Heather> no phone just for this afternoon?  or also the rest of the week?
11:53:12 <Roger> You should probably go to ws-arch.  I think the scribe will be there.
11:53:28 <Roger> Uh, don't know.  I suspect forever.
11:53:42 <Roger> The phone situation here seems weird.
11:53:45 <Heather> ok... see you there, leaving joint
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