IRC log of ws-paris on 2002-06-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:13:26 [RRSAgent]
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07:13:44 [hugo]
hugo has changed the topic to: WSAWG & WSDWG joint face-to-face meeting
07:14:03 [Arthur]
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07:20:17 [roberto]
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07:20:44 [mikem]
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07:22:35 [plh-paris]
who is taking minutes?
07:23:56 [hugo]
IRC log at:
07:30:48 [tjordahl]
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07:33:59 [mikem]
WSA comments to WSD requirements:
07:36:13 [hugo]
Gudge, can you close the roof? apparently, you are next to the buttons
07:36:25 [hugo]
please, pretty please
07:37:29 [jjm]
hugo, u not tried ?
07:37:49 [soliton]
is chris's presentation on a URL?
07:38:00 [hugo]
yes, it said to talk to Gudge
07:38:36 [jjm]
07:38:43 [jjm]
07:39:31 [hugo]
Travel agent stuff:
07:40:01 [hugo]
EDI use case:
07:41:13 [Roger]
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07:41:22 [jjm]
07:44:27 [jjm]
btw, i thought output only operations had been deprecated as of yesterday
07:44:30 [jjm]
07:45:36 [jeffsch]
always the comedian :-)
07:55:50 [roberto]
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08:15:31 [MChapman]
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08:25:49 [plh-paris]
Jonathan's presentation:
08:26:57 [Gudge]
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08:27:09 [chris]
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08:27:46 [jjm]
hi chris
08:27:54 [chris]
08:28:03 [jjm]
u quiet today
08:28:12 [hugo]
chris, is your presentation on the Web?
08:28:24 [mikem]
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08:28:40 [chris]
not yet, will upload after I slurp my email
08:29:25 [plh-paris]
chris: can you resend your message regarding comments from arch to desc to www-ws-desc?
08:29:42 [jjm]
08:29:54 [chris]
yup, will do
08:31:04 [chris]
can I just send the all.htm and you build the slides? rather than I upload 11 slides...
08:31:20 [hugo]
chris, sure
08:32:23 [Gudge]
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08:38:30 [hugo]
chris, actually, I guess that the all.htm should be enough
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08:47:36 [chris]
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08:47:50 [chris]
uri for Chris's presentation at joint session:
08:49:47 [dougb]
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08:54:16 [chris]
sent email re: WSAWG f/b on WSD Requirements doc to w3c-ws-desc list
08:57:34 [hugo]
I have updated my travel agent usage^H^H^He case already to have the correct title
08:57:55 [kevinL]
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08:58:01 [chris]
let it be recorded, this day, june 12, 2002 ad that the joint meeting of the WSD and WSA WGs has chosen the term "Use Case" to mean the high-level story thingy and "Usage Scenario" as the lower-level thingy
08:58:42 [MChapman]
wots a thingy?
08:59:25 [jjm]
your output buffer full?
09:00:00 [jeffm]
That's what happens when a 1 element push down stack gets pushed too hard
09:01:40 [plh-paris]
chris: why w3c-ws-desc instead of www-ws-desc?
09:06:30 [sdlind]
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09:06:35 [SteveLind]
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09:09:51 [chris]
plh-paris: actually sent to both lists
09:10:22 [chris]
oops, actually, I meant sent to both member lists. didn't send to www-ws-desc but will gladly do
09:10:30 [chris]
so if that is what people want
09:10:51 [plh-paris]
well, that's the way the desc group works at least.
09:10:59 [jeffm]
and the crowd roars ....
09:11:00 [chris]
okay then
09:11:02 [dbooth]
I was wondering who is scribe this morning.
09:11:19 [chris]
I guess it has kind of been me...
09:12:27 [dbooth]
Thanks Chris!
09:12:31 [chris]
09:12:40 [chris]
(sent to www-ws-desc I mean)
09:13:01 [Heather]
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09:13:22 [chris]
hey heather...
09:13:37 [chris]
we're figuring out how to do this
09:13:54 [dbooth]
Phone: Alternate Phone Numbers
09:13:54 [dbooth]
09:13:57 [chris]
09:13:58 [dietmar]
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09:14:12 [plh-paris]
chris: I "forwarded" the message from w3t-arch in www-ws-desc.
09:14:24 [dbooth]
Passcode: 938462 and then press #
09:14:38 [chris]
heather, u there?
09:14:44 [chris]
we're on the call
09:14:47 [dbooth]
Heather, the phone should be active now.
09:15:03 [Heather]
hi t
09:15:03 [chris]
09:15:20 [dbooth]
Heather, we cannot hear you.
09:15:38 [chris]
this is not a good sign...
09:15:53 [Heather]
can you hear me saying hello?
09:15:58 [soliton]
09:16:03 [plh-paris]
we're calling back :-]
09:16:04 [tjordahl]
yes, we could
09:16:05 [soliton]
09:16:06 [Heather]
i can't hear you either...
09:16:10 [dbooth]
Heather, we are dialing again.
09:16:19 [soliton]
hi, heather, this is Hao
09:16:24 [chris]
say something
09:16:33 [chris]
09:16:39 [Heather]
i said hello
09:16:44 [plh-paris]
oops (again)
09:16:55 [Heather]
is someone taking minutes into IRC so I can follow the discussion?
09:17:13 [Gudge]
we can just about hear you
09:17:15 [dbooth]
Heather, we're on the phone again now.
09:17:20 [dbooth]
Can you hear us?
09:17:41 [chris]
yeah, okay
09:18:05 [chris]
you want to lurk? I'll try to keep the jist of the discussion
09:18:57 [Heather]
yes, that would be great
09:19:01 [chris]
generated document format for use cases, seems to be acceptable
09:19:03 [Heather]
do you have a scribe?
09:19:14 [Gudge]
it's chris ;-)
09:19:34 [scribe]
davidb: suggests use of CVS for repository
09:19:42 [scribe]
daniel: you didn't mention that
09:19:54 [scribe]
daveo: ahhh, but that's what we were thinking
09:20:07 [scribe]
daniel: didn't want this all scattered all over the place
09:20:26 [scribe]
jon: yeah, but they have URIs and are on the web...
09:20:47 [scribe]
daniel:what about other wg's in the activity, have they signed up?
09:21:18 [Heather]
CVS for document repository?
09:21:23 [scribe]
chris: xmlp is just publishing their work as a note, then they're done
09:21:36 [scribe]
daveo: just a question of whether we want to do that or not
09:21:37 [Gudge]
Yes, CVS for doc repos
09:21:55 [scribe]
daniel: same thread, are we thinking about relationship with WS-I?
09:22:16 [scribe]
jeff: yes
09:22:39 [scribe]
chris: let's not go there...
09:22:58 [scribe]
jeff: talking about org to org not productive, rather about wg to wg
09:23:10 [scribe]
jon: if we're done, let's move on
09:23:17 [scribe]
daveo: want to bring up issue
09:23:35 [jeffsch]
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09:23:51 [scribe]
daveo: currently there are architectural extensions that drive requirements, that i put in place in doc for wsawg ease of use, is this okay?
09:24:18 [scribe]
daniel: to be consistent, separate it out, but suggest you leave in
09:24:25 [scribe]
daveo: okay
09:24:53 [scribe]
jon: question about ws-i and what we do at wg level.
09:25:57 [scribe]
jon: wsdwg relationship is: we have deliverables and we put them out for public review, we ask specific wgs and other groups to review. we can and should notify WS-I about document we want reviewed. we have public comments list and process in place to get our docs to ws-i.
09:26:43 [scribe]
jon: from other side, presumably they'll have feedback alias that we can send f/b to... just need commitment to review their stuff (when made public)
09:28:59 [scribe]
chris: same warm bodies fill the wgs from both orgs
09:29:15 [scribe]
jeffm: agree, but would be nice to know that coordination is happening
09:29:47 [Heather]
I don't think its enough to have an informal stealth collaboration
09:29:50 [scribe]
chris: w3c work is public domain
09:30:07 [scribe]
daveo: difference in schedules and deliverables of 2 groups
09:30:15 [Heather]
It will work better if someONE knows they are responsible for keeping up with both groups and coordinating
09:30:30 [Heather]
and feeding back potential conflicts and differences
09:30:48 [Heather]
and the rest of the group knows who to go to
09:31:16 [kevinL]
agreed, some dedicated contacts from both group will really help
09:31:20 [Heather]
I would volunteer
09:31:26 [scribe]
09:32:13 [jeffm]
the chair of the wsi basic profile is on WSD
09:32:24 [jeffm]
the editor of the wsi scenarios doc is on the WSA
09:32:31 [plh-paris]
jeff: not for a long time
09:32:45 [plh-paris]
(for the chair of wsi basic profile)
09:32:53 [jeffm]
oops, you're right
09:33:28 [Heather]
Yes, there is lots of informal cross polinization and thats a 'good thing'
09:33:33 [jeffm]
I am not in favor of appointing "liason" people at this point
09:33:47 [Roger]
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09:33:58 [Heather]
but for scenarios at least, there should be someone both sides can go to who is actively looking for collaborations and issues
09:34:40 [Heather]
Jeff: Why?
09:36:35 [scribe]
reolved for wsd: commit to review relevant deliverables of WS-I and notify them when we ship deliverable
09:36:48 [scribe]
09:37:38 [Heather]
Is wsarch's scenario group going to have a closer relationship?
09:38:17 [scribe]
resolved for wsa: commit to review relevant deliverables of WS-I and notify them when we ship deliverable. will also assign Heather K and Martin C as contact points for coordination questions between WSAWG and WS-I use cases team
09:38:49 [Heather]
09:39:05 [scribe]
roger: what about ebXML people... there was some traffic and there may be a problem there
09:39:34 [scribe]
jon: its in our charter
09:41:56 [scribe]
add a note to 3.2 in arch requirements...
09:42:12 [scribe]
don't want to go there, need ac review to change charter
09:42:40 [scribe]
daveo: fact that it isnt in charter, we can interpret to extend in that regard
09:43:34 [scribe]
jon: calls for objections to wsd resolution?
09:43:44 [scribe]
hugo: commit kind of scares me...
09:43:59 [scribe]
<some suggest that hugo is afraid of commitment:)>
09:44:52 [scribe]
hugo: what is the level of "commitment" when faced with review of W3C LC doc and review of WS-I doc, eg.
09:45:00 [scribe]
jon: thinks it is basically the same...
09:45:28 [scribe]
jon: we commit to notice:)
09:46:06 [scribe]
jon: recalls the question on the objections?
09:46:43 [scribe]
09:47:13 [scribe]
jon: recalls question of resolution for wsa...
09:47:18 [scribe]
<no objections>
09:47:22 [scribe]
both motions pass
09:48:34 [scribe]
jon: reviews review of requirements feedback, essentially, all points of possible overlap or misalignment identified by MikeM are in alignment w/r/t current drafts of respective requirements docs
09:48:54 [scribe]
<some administrivia about which group goes where after lunch>
09:49:01 [scribe]
09:49:30 [Heather]
are we going to try to fix the phone now? or at the end of the lunch break?
09:49:50 [scribe]
after lunch I think...
09:50:46 [roberto]
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09:53:03 [Heather]
when whould I dial in?
09:53:11 [yinleng]
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09:53:20 [chris]
when you notice the irc traffic picking up?
09:53:39 [chris]
I would think about 75 mins from now or so...
09:53:48 [Heather]
ok... I'll watch for you
09:53:59 [chris]
go get some coffee:)
09:54:01 [Heather]
good, that'll give ME time to get breakfast!
09:54:28 [jjm]
09:54:30 [jjm]
10:02:45 [dougb]
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11:38:50 [Roger]
Heather -- are you there?
11:39:46 [Roger]
Heather - we are about to start up again.
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11:42:32 [GlenD]
My work here is done.
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11:42:35 [jeffm]
where is gudge?
11:42:41 [plh-paris]
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11:43:07 [jeffm]
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11:43:28 [jeffm]
where's the "stuff"?
11:43:58 [Gudge]
11:46:49 [Heather]
Heather's here
11:46:59 [Heather]
should I dial in?
11:48:30 [chris]
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11:49:33 [sanjiva]
u should prolly join ws-arch
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11:51:31 [Roger]
Heather, are you there?
11:51:44 [Roger]
Sorry, we don't have a phone here.
11:51:48 [tjordahl]
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11:52:32 [Heather]
11:52:48 [Heather]
no phone just for this afternoon? or also the rest of the week?
11:53:12 [Roger]
You should probably go to ws-arch. I think the scribe will be there.
11:53:28 [Roger]
Uh, don't know. I suspect forever.
11:53:42 [Roger]
The phone situation here seems weird.
11:53:45 [Heather]
ok... see you there, leaving joint
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