IRC log of tagmem on 2002-03-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

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RRSAgent, help
15:00:49 [DanC]
RRSAgent, pointer?
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15:03:31 [DanC]
* Paul's notes from Technical Plenary TAG session Paul Cotton (Thu, Feb 28 2002)
15:03:31 [DanC]
15:11:53 [DanC]
Zakim, this will be tag
15:11:54 [Zakim]
ok, DanC
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"In addition, a report on the discussions at the workshop will be made public after the meeting." --
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Zakim, this is TAG
15:28:38 [Zakim]
sorry, TimBL, I do not see a conference named 'TAG'
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see you in the telcon.
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TAG_Weekly()10:30AM has now started
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Zakim, this is TAG
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ok, TimBL
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Zakim, ??P5 is Stuart
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+Stuart; got it
15:30:17 [TimBL]
Zakim, who is here?
15:30:18 [Zakim]
I see TimBL, Stuart
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frap; my ssh tunnel is acting up
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15:32:43 [DanCon]
Zakim, who's here?
15:32:44 [Zakim]
I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, ??P6, ??P8
15:32:54 [TimBL]
Zakim, ??P6 is PaulC
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+PaulC; got it
15:33:05 [Roy]
I need the phone number
15:33:20 [DanCon]
15:33:22 [Stuart]
+1 617 761 6200 I think
15:33:28 [Stuart]
then 0824#
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+ +1.604.873.aaaa
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Zakim, ??P8 is Norm
15:33:42 [Zakim]
+Norm; got it
15:33:57 [TimBL]
Zakim, 604 is TimBray
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sorry, TimBL, I do not recognize a party named '604'
15:34:05 [DanCon]
Zakim, +1.604.873.aaaa is TimBray
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+TimBray; got it
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Zakim, +1.604 is TimBray
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sorry, TimBL, I do not recognize a party named '+1.604'
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Zakim, ??P10 is RoyF
15:34:25 [Zakim]
+RoyF; got it
15:34:30 [DanCon]
Zakim, who's here?
15:34:30 [TimBL]
Zakim, who isn't here?
15:34:31 [Zakim]
I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, PaulC, Norm, TimBray, RoyF
15:34:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, TimBL.
15:34:47 [DanCon]
regrets from IanJ
15:34:59 [DanCon]
========== Convene
15:35:02 [DanCon]
Zakim, who's here?
15:35:03 [Zakim]
I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, PaulC, Norm, TimBray, RoyF
15:35:23 [TimBL]
15:35:26 [DanCon]
agenda etc:
15:35:36 [DanCon]
Last modified: $Date: 2002/03/05 23:10:05 $
15:36:40 [DanCon]
[some confusion about the agenda...]
15:36:57 [DanCon]
agenda+ admin, review of minutes
15:37:08 [DanCon]
agenda+ * Technical Plenary - short report - issues arising?
15:37:18 [DanCon]
agenda+ 1. Creative writing: dividing up the TOC
15:37:32 [DanCon]
agenda+ * XML namespace issues. Mixed namespaces. Issue 13.
15:38:34 [DanCon]
-------- Action review
15:38:54 [DanCon]
-- XML PM workshop stuff...
15:40:18 [DanCon]
15:41:02 [DanCon]
ACTION DanC: check with workshop chair, make them available to the public, per CFP
15:41:13 [DanCon]
DONE: Summarize XMl PM workshop
15:41:39 [DanCon]
PaulC: dan, when you're done making them public, lemme know so I can re-send to www-tag, OK?
15:41:42 [DanCon]
DanCon: OK
15:41:52 [DanCon]
DONE: Kick off discusiion of mixed namespace interpretation on www-tag
15:41:57 [DanCon]
15:42:11 [DanCon]
15:42:17 [DanCon]
going back to the top of the list...
15:42:29 [DanCon]
"Summarize different approaches currently used for mapping URIs to media types."
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not quite clear who's doing what...
15:43:03 [DanCon]
15:43:33 [DanCon]
from 12Feb, Paul requested to withdraw "Summarize TAG findings on using URIs: (a) use URIs when naming in context of Web (2) should be able to follow URI to explanatory material (3) software is not required to follow a URI when processing it"
15:44:15 [Zakim]
15:45:10 [DanCon]
action comes from 15:52:56
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15:45:51 [DanCon]
15:45:53 [DanCon]
"Add a section on datatypes to the TAG arch doc toc."
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from 12Feb.
15:46:26 [DanCon]
re TBL 12 Feb "In 28 Jan findings, propose alternative wording to section on namespace-based dispatching"
15:46:32 [DanCon]
15:47:49 [DanCon]
ACTION TimBL CONTINUES: "In 28 Jan findings, change "Should" to "Must" where appropriate."
15:48:04 [DanCon]
ACTION IJ CONTINUES: "Integrate findings into TAG arch doc toc."
15:48:25 [Stuart]
15:48:25 [DanCon]
DONE: SW "Write up that the TAG approves of IETF draft from Don Eastlake with "http:" instead of "content-type:"."
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Roy: [something...]
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DONE: TBray: "Write a proposal to suggest that URNs not be used for namespace URIs."
15:50:05 [DanCon]
re "Ask Philipp Hoschka to take a new HTTP requirement on idempotent POST-like method to IETF liaison teleconference. Include the XForms WG in the loop." TBL from 18Feb.
15:51:26 [DanCon]
Roy: I'm not sure what this is about...
15:53:27 [DanCon]
reviewing the log, it seems related to "whenToUseGet-7
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15:53:36 [DanCon]
15:54:08 [DanCon]
it came from 22:25:37
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DONE: TBray: "Rewrite point 14 of Architectural Theses on Namespaces and Namespace Documents per discussion at 18 feb teleconference."
15:55:01 [DanCon]
ACTION PaulC/Ian: draft summary of TAG work to date. DONE.
15:56:51 [DanCon]
"Here is my draft report using my outline. ... " --
15:58:06 [DanCon]
TBL/DanC: style is kinda formal; be more chatty?
15:58:21 [DanCon]
Roy/Bray/others: it's fine; not much meat to it yet anyway.
15:59:29 [DanCon]
PROPOSED: forward summary to www-tag, w3c-ac-members,
16:00:00 [DanCon]
PaulC: I've heard requests for a separate tag announce list, FYI.
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RESOLVED: forward summary to www-tag, w3c-ac-members,
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ACTION DanC: send it out.
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======== 2. * Technical Plenary - short report - issues arising?
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PaulC: "more technical stuff" is the major feedback we got.
16:02:09 [DanCon]
PaulC: I think it would be interesting for the TAG to lead discussion of technical issue. have folks discuss them.
16:02:16 [DanCon]
SW: yeah...
16:02:31 [DanCon]
PaulC: no particular "please look at this issue" feedback.
16:03:10 [DanCon]
DaveO: "document authoring" folks at a lunch table suggested that 'ease of authoring' is broken...
16:03:22 [DanCon]
ChrisL: they seem to be asking for one big W3C namespace
16:04:36 [DanCon]
PaulC: to summarize, again: the TAG session went so well that they asked us to run the whole thing next time.
16:04:57 [DanCon]
PaulC: thanks, Norm and Dan, for the nifty presentations.
16:06:08 [TimBL]
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16:06:33 [DanCon]
TimBL: note it's color-coded... issues in red, ...
16:07:42 [DanCon]
Bray: wasn't somebody gonna stick all the issues in there?
16:07:59 [DanCon]
TBL: I did that; it was up to date at some point
16:08:49 [DanCon]
RoyF: is this an index of what we're doing? or an architectural description of the web?
16:08:52 [DanCon]
TBL: both
16:11:58 [DanCon]
TBray: who's maitaining this? I asked for anchors, version numbers, etc. ... how about xmlspec DTD?
16:12:16 [DanCon]
TBL: I'm maintaining it; I'm using Amaya, and I just hit save.
16:17:11 [DanCon]
[lots of discussion, about what is not exactly clear]
16:19:50 [DanCon]
Roy: ah... now I get it... the section heading for the 3rd bit misled me.
16:20:00 [DanCon]
"Representational State Transfer"
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TBray: how about this version/last version; keeping old version available.
16:22:17 [DanCon]
TBL: I expect the blue ("working documents") bits to expand.
16:24:46 [DanCon]
RoyF: so I'd like to help with the writing, but I don't see the process.
16:24:53 [DanCon]
TimBL: that's what this agenda item is about...
16:25:15 [TimBL]
Zakim, q?
16:25:16 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
16:25:52 [DanCon]
Bray: do we expect to point the community at this page?
16:25:58 [DanCon]
DanCon: we've done that much already, no?
16:26:10 [DanCon]
Bray: then I'm not comfortable; it's got stuff that we've never discussed, typos, etc.
16:27:12 [DanCon]
TimBL: this is very much a draft...
16:27:44 [DanCon]
Bray: then please put a disclaimer at the top
16:30:03 [DanCon]
[discussion of just what sort of disclaimer is appropriate/sufficient]
16:31:28 [DanCon]
TimBL: I'd like to assign somebody the intro, and somebody a one-page version of each section.
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[and something about slides?]
16:33:24 [DanCon]
RoyF: "CHAPTER 4: Designing the Web Architecture: Problems and Insights" belongs more in the TAG intro than in the 3rd section of our docs.
16:35:42 [DanCon]
16:35:58 [DanCon]
DanCon: are folks backing out from using/wanting CVS?
16:36:43 [DanCon]
Roy: my request for CVS is pending. but I still intend to use it.
16:37:14 [DanCon]
TimBray: does section 4 [messages] need to be there?
16:37:44 [DanCon]
TimBL: sorta like asking "does web services need to be there"? i.e. where would you put stuff about messages and such?
16:38:14 [DanCon]
16:39:33 [DanCon]
?: but are they bringing us issues?
16:40:01 [DanCon]
PaulC: how about having the web services architecture group to write that stuff?
16:42:04 [DanCon]
DanCon: there are issues, e.g. from RDF Core, that don't come up until you uncover the illusion that the web never changes.
16:44:02 [DanCon]
DanCon: I hope to learn about web services architecture by discussing it here.
16:44:36 [DanCon]
DaveO: so which group should develop the web services architecture?
16:45:02 [DanCon]
DanCon: I hope we'll come to agreement about what it is.
16:45:37 [DanCon]
DaveO/PaulC: the Web Services architecture group is discussion "what is a web service?" at length right now.
16:46:50 [Stuart]
\me and counting... tick :-)
16:47:03 [DanCon]
DaveO: I'd like this group to give the web services arch group a framework in which to define web service.
16:50:18 [TimBL]
daveO: it would be useful for them to have a glossary from us
16:50:34 [TimBL]
tim: it would be useful for us to work on the glosary sonn, as we go.
16:51:42 [DanCon]
PaulC: so if we give a good grounding in the basics, other groups, e.g. Web Services Arch, should fall in/out naturally.
16:51:56 [DanCon]
[several]: sounds good.
16:52:53 [DanCon]
TBL: so... back to the idea of one page on each section...
16:53:58 [DanCon]
Bray/DanC/Orchard: yes, filling in the content is likely to provide useful feedback on the TOC.
16:54:03 [DanCon]
... it's iterative.
16:54:04 [TimBL]
DaveO: table of dependencies betwen specifications would be useful asn I wouldlike to work on it.
16:55:06 [DanCon]
TimBL asks DaveO to chat offline about dependencies etc....
16:55:19 [DanCon]
Norm: I've been doing depenency stuff too; I'd like to be involved.
16:56:45 [DanCon]
TimBL: I'd like to attack sections in pairs, rather than having each person stay in their field of expertise.
16:57:48 [DanCon]
Norm: I'm interested in "what is a URI"
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Chris: message section.
16:58:20 [DanCon]
Stuart: "what is a URI" -- me too.
16:58:31 [DanCon]
PaulC: message section.
16:58:36 [DanCon]
... with chris.
16:58:57 [DanCon]
DanCon: I'm interested in the intro.
16:59:02 [DanCon]
Bray: me too: intro.
16:59:32 [Zakim]
17:00:41 [Stuart]
On dependencies I spoke to some folks from the RDF-IG and they were interested in 'scraping' a dependency graph out of the documents themselves.
17:01:15 [TimBL]
Applicationl State Transfer @@ retitle (Roy, DaveO)
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TAG_Weekly()10:30AM has ended
17:02:50 [DanC]
so, tim, does the group expect more than just a pointer to the IRC log?
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