*** Log started on 2001-05-24 UTC-0400 ***
10:16 [RRSAgent]
*** RRSAgent (swick@seahorse.w3.org) has joined channel #dspace
10:17 [mick]
I'm also logging to a file on my machine, but web log is great.
10:18 [RalphS]
there will be delays in updating mirrored copies of the irc log, but it will eventually catch up.
10:21 [RalphS]
(a real-time log should be available via slow1.w3.org )
10:25 [dstuve]
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10:25 [mick]
10:27 [RalphS]
RRSAgent intentionally does not record out-of-band comments
10:27 [mick]
just checking :)
10:27 [ArtB]
Mick - if you XChat as your IRC client, it will log all of the traffic on a channel.
10:29 [mick]
mIRC does this as well.
10:29 [RobTan]
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10:29 [RobTan]
Good morning/afternoon
10:29 [mick]
OK, standing by for EricM, pbreton, etc.
10:29 [RobTan]
We are assembling the Bristol team
10:30 [RalphS]
hmm. not accepting meeting id
10:30 [mick]
I just got on no prob
10:30 [mick]
I'm the only one on voice, so fare
10:30 [mick]
so far
10:30 [ArtB]
+Mick, Ralph, Art
10:31 [bwm]
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10:32 [bwm]
who/what is RRSAgent?
10:32 [ArtB]
10:32 [ArtB]
10:32 [mick]
RRSAgent - realtime weblog http://www.w3.org/2001/05/24-dspace-irc
10:32 [ArtB]
+DaveR, Brian, Rob
10:33 [bwm]
10:34 [em]
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10:34 [mick]
Hi eric, ralph attempting to raise you by phone
10:34 [pbreton]
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10:34 [pbreton]
Hi all
10:34 [mick]
Hi Peter.
10:35 [ericP]
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10:35 [ArtB]
+Peter, EricM
10:35 [bwm_]
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10:35 [pbreton]
Hi Brian
10:35 [ArtB]
10:36 [bwm_]
Hi Peter
10:37 [RalphS]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-dspace/2001May/0019.html pre-reading
10:39 [ArtB]
EricM: what toolkits have you checke?
10:40 [ArtB]
Peter: Jena, EricP's perl, EOR, Sergey's RDF db mapping, SiRPAC
10:40 [ArtB]
Peter: Sergey's db info is too low level
10:41 [ArtB]
RalphS: wrt when the data store gets created - virtual or permanent store - for a couple of reasons I'm nervous about the virtural approach
10:42 [ArtB]
... its difficult to carry through the orig semantics to the triple store
10:42 [ArtB]
... recovering semantics is more work
10:43 [ArtB]
... approach 1a - doing things in paralle may be easier
10:44 [ArtB]
... the add-on will facilitate adding new properties and extensibility without having to change the main DSpace tables
10:45 [ArtB]
EricM: pretty much agree with Ralph.
10:45 [ArtB]
... I applaud your approach.
10:46 [ArtB]
... value adding new relationships will be easier if you use a triple store approach
10:46 [bwm]
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10:47 [ArtB]
DaveR: the value of the triple store will be necessary to give more value
10:49 [ArtB]
ericP: the value of a triple store is store extraneous data
10:50 [ArtB]
Approach 1c = a hybrid of 1a and 1b
10:51 [ArtB]
Brian: I'm concerned about storing parallel data - sync issues
10:51 [ArtB]
mick: seems like 1a and 1c is the general direction.
10:51 [ericP]
1c: := generic triple store used as a complement to the set of relational databases
10:53 [ArtB]
Peter: I'm concerned about tool duplicity and tool availability
10:53 [gabe_hp]
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10:54 [em]
- jena, eor, forth group
10:55 [ArtB]
EricM: I understand the need to have language consistency.
10:55 [ArtB]
10:55 [RalphS]
-> ICS-Forth RDFSuite
10:56 [bwm]
Redland does not have Java support or relational database
10:56 [RalphS]
-> http://www.redland.opensource.ac.uk/ Redland
10:57 [ArtB]
Does Jena have db support?
10:57 [bwm]
Not yet
10:58 [ArtB]
Brian: I did a relational db mapping with SiRPAC about one year ago.
10:58 [ArtB]
Peter: I've received some email about someone that did some db support for Jena.
10:58 [bwm]
DAve wants to speak
10:59 [ArtB]
Peter: which have a RDBMS backend?
10:59 [ArtB]
em: EOR and ICS-Forth and some Jena work
11:00 [ArtB]
em: EOR uses SiRPAC
11:01 [ArtB]
DaveR: Ian Dickinson's DoJo work [HPL-Bristol]
11:01 [ArtB]
... DoJo - gives some DAML support and some query support
11:01 [em]
url reference to dojo?
11:01 [em]
sounds very interesting
11:02 [bwm]
not yet
11:02 [ArtB]
DaveR: need to think about schema support when making your decision
11:02 [bwm]
thats understood
11:04 [R-Tansley]
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11:04 [ArtB]
mick: so 5 Java possibilities: Jena, EOR, Forth, persistent SiRPAC, DoJo
11:04 [RalphS]
-> http://nestroy.wi-inf.uni-essen.de/rdf/sum_rdf_api/ [undated] Summary of discussions on RDF API
11:05 [ArtB]
Brian: I would remove persistent SiRPAC and replace that with EOR since my persistent SiRPAC work is not being worked on.
11:05 [RobTan]
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11:06 [R-Tansley]
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11:07 [pbreton]
hi rob
11:07 [ArtB]
=== strategies for generating RDF ====
11:13 [ArtB]
Beans == fielded records
11:14 [ArtB]
GINF: http://www-diglib.stanford.edu/diglib/ginf/
11:14 [em]
:) thanks art
11:15 [em]
also notes: http://www.interdataworking.com/
11:16 [ArtB]
Peter, after this meeting I would appreciate if you would summarize your view [both polls] and send it to rdf-dspace.
11:18 [ArtB]
em, do you know if folks have used EOR to solve a similar problem that Peter is thinking about
11:19 [em]
not eor specific... but what I think i'm hearing is what is helpful is a very general rdf toolset with a set of applications (in this case focusing on data creation) that benifit from a set of known predicates
11:19 [em]
this in essense is why we focused on building eor
11:20 [ArtB]
ericP: a viewpoint of the polls - at one end you've got a 1:1 mapping of the fields of a form to a RDBMS table
11:20 [em]
but the the set of machine rules (as opposed to procedural) is not somethign that eor dealt with
11:22 [ArtB]
ericP, what's your viewpoint of the other end of the poll?
11:23 [ArtB]
em: may want to record information about what you don't know - it can be very useful
11:27 [ArtB]
DaveR: want a followup on storage API
11:28 [ArtB]
DaveR: how to model changes to a document
11:28 [RalphS]
11:28 [em]
11:28 [em]
also the harmony model
11:28 [bwm]
11:28 [em]
may be of interest... event modelling
11:29 [ArtB]
em: followup - this was a good start; willing to have more such meetings
11:29 [ArtB]
gabe_hp: once loading is figured, how to merge the two separate dbs
11:30 [ArtB]
... how to query both without caller knowing about it.
11:30 [bwm]
A good ref for Index event model is http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january99/bearman/01bearman.html, see fig 5
11:30 [ArtB]
ericP: that where my research has been
11:31 [RalphS]
ArtB: could Peter write a summary of this discussion and post to the mailing list?
11:31 [RalphS]
... would like EricP to post his thoughts on querying across different databases
11:32 [ArtB]
KUTGW Dspace guys!
11:32 [ArtB]
Adjorned ...
11:32 [mick]
11:33 [ArtB]
Gabe - how's life in MagicDisk land?
*** Log ended on 2001-05-24 ***