XMLP WG Telcon Minutes, 7 Jan 2004

1. Roll call.
Present 17/12
BEA Systems, Mark Nottingham
Canon, Herve Ruellan
IBM, David Fallside
IBM, Noah Mendelsohn
IBM, John Ibbotson
IONA Technologies, Seumas Soltysik
Microsoft Corporation, Martin Gudgin
Nokia, Michael Mahan
Oracle, Anish Karmarkar
SAP AG, Gerd Hoelzing
SAP AG, Volker Wiechers
SeeBeyond, Pete Wenzel (scribe)
Sun Microsystems, Tony Graham
Sun Microsystems, Marc Hadley
Systinet (IDOOX), Jacek Kopecky
W3C, Yves Lafon
W3C, Carine Bournez

BEA Systems, David Orchard
Canon, Jean-Jacques Moreau
IONA Technologies, Mike Greenberg
Microsoft Corporation, Jeff Schlimmer
Oracle, Jeff Mischkinsky
Systinet (IDOOX), Miroslav Simek

DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech, Mario Jeckle
DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech, Andreas Riegg

2. Agenda review, and AOB

Other Business:
Many URLs for SOAP 1.1 are given as "http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/",
where the latest version (now 1.2) exists.  People still expect to
find 1.1 here.  Even the SOAP 1.2 REC references this incorrect
URL.  The community should be informed to use the dated URI for 1.1
(http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/) explicitly.
Carine confirms this is correct.
DavidF will Inform WS-I, OASIS, xml-dist-app, soapbuilders.  Also change
status section of 1.2 spec to add a pointer to 1.1.

3. Approval of December 17 telcon minutes,

No corrections or objections.  The minutes are approved.

4. Review action items

2003/10/08: WG
Monitor WSS Oasis TC response to our SOAP12-n11n comment. IF they do add a
reference, we may need to move the document along the rec track. Specs in

MarcH will determine whether the TC has done anything about this comment
that requires action on our part.  Later in the call he discovered that
no reference has been added.  Action is considered done.

2003/12/02: DavidF
contact Nilo and accept his offer for the primer
DONE 12/17/03, awaiting reply

2003/12/17: Carine
incorporate SOAP 1.2 Rec proposals into errata, for issues 7rec,

2003/12/17: Noah
propose new issue on variability of encoding in Miffy
DONE, issue #454 created

5. Status reports and misc

-- Media types registrations ("application/soap+xml", etc)
2003/12/10: MarkN
Take comment until satudray and submit the application/soap+xml media type
to ietf list by monday

Submission has been acknowledged; it should be posted soon.  IETF has now
passed a new process.  If we choose to use the new process, we would have
to supercede our current submission with a new one that is similar to our
previous version.  MarkN proposes that we continue under the old process.
Action is done.

-- XMLP/WSD Task Force

No report.

6. Attachments (9.30 + 60)

-- Action items:

2003/12/17: David
contact Herve and ask him to make changes suggested in
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2003Dec/0012.html (Gudge's
suggestion) - removing paragraph "For xs:dateTime, xs:date and xs:time"
DONE. Subsequent discussion suggested 4 questions to answer:
- Formally decide that we keep MIFFY and MTOM splitted.

Noah:  Others have been more enthusiastic about the split.  It adds a
layer of complexity.

MarkN:  Strong disposition to keep them separate.  Makes them clearer,
distinguishes encoding from binding.  Merged spec was more difficult
to read.

MarcH:  Agree with MarkN.  They are logically separate.

Noah:  Fine with me.

DavidF:  So we have then formally decided to keep them separate.

- Translate MIFFY from pure html to the xml format used for our specs.

MarkN will remain as editor, but is not familiar with W3C maintenance
tools.  Editors of MTOM will be added as editors of MIFFY.

Noah suggests starting with the xml version of MTOM, so that we will
not lose text in the conversion process.

DavidF:  We can review the converted copy and generate a list of issues.

- Add Gudge's proposal to MIFFY. (And

MarkN will make text changes agreed to at F2F before conversion to xml.

- Pick a name to replace "MIFFY", suggestions to date include "Optimised
XML Packaging Convention (OXPC)" and "Convention for Optimised Packaging of

XML-binary Optimized Packaging (XOP) suggested via IRC.

MarcH suggests collecting alternatives over the next week, then taking
a poll.

2003/12/02: Gudge & Marc
Draft a proposal for unreferenced Mime parts (issue 440) by Dec 13

In progress.  New deadline is COB Jan 9.

2003/12/02: Yves & MarkN
Generate a motivation and design for the "representation" header by dec 9
(and propose a header name)

Yves posted on this topic, there was some discussion.

Jacek favors sticking with the functionality as specified in PASWA.

Noah:  Can the MIME content-type be specified in the PASWA proposal?

Jacek:  Yes, it uses a mime-type attribute.

DavidF:  We'll log this as an issue to be decided.  It is already 442.
Update this issue with Yves' proposal.

2003/12/17: Jacek
modify http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2003Dec/0020.html
to (a) incorporate his own comments & that herve agreed to, (b) change MUST
NOT optimize section to "is likely to", (c) remove reconstruction, due COB
Dec 19
DONE, see http://www.w3.org/mid/1071688649.2112.126.camel@localhost

This goes into MTOM.

2003/12/17: Marc
contact Herve and ask him to make changes suggested in


2003/12/02: Gudge
Create a schema to describe xbinc:Include dm:type, by EOW

Done at F2F, checked into CVS.  Not yet referenced from any spec.

Herve will add a reference to this schema from the MTOM spec.

2003/12/02: MichaelM
Generate a list of the UC and requirements that have not been met by
MTOM/Miffy by January 5

In progress.  Deadline reset to Jan 12.

-- Issue discussion
    o 454, http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/xmlp-issues.html#x454,
variability of encoding in Miffy

Anish:  Several emails on this topic were sent this morning.

MarkN:  Content-Transfer-Encoding is not visible after MIME processing
is applied.  If we restrict this, then MIFFY couldn't be used with
some transports.

Noah:  If the transport can't handle binary encoding, why would it
use MIFFY?

MarkN:  Because SMTP gateways will have to make decisions without knowing

Noah:  Base64Binary is a fine option.  Concerns about interoperability.

Anish:  MIFFY doesn't need to restrict anything; maybe HTTP binding does.

Jacek:  If we don't restrict to base64binary, then at least restrict to
binary-capable encodings (base64 or binary).

MarkN:  In favor of designing in extensibility and letting others profile
it for interoperability.

DavidF:  Revisit the encoding email thread and continue discussion there.

8. SOAP 1.2 Recommendation (postponed)

18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items: 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DavidF to send a note to WS-I, OASIS and SOAPBuilders that /TR/soap
point to the most recent of the spec & prepare a status change for SOAP/1.2
spec (in time for next week) [1] 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/07-xmlprotocol-irc#T17-18-59 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: MarkN to make f2f text changes to Miffy (HTML version) by COB Jan 9 [4] 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/07-xmlprotocol-irc#T17-43-36 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: WG to find a candidate document name to replace MIFFY in time for next
week [5] 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/07-xmlprotocol-irc#T17-46-35 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gudge & Marc Draft a proposal for unreferenced Mime parts (issue 440)
by COB Jan 9 [6] 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/07-xmlprotocol-irc#T17-49-01 
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: herve to make reference to xbinc:Include dm:type schema from MTOM doc
18:38:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/07-xmlprotocol-irc#T18-07-28