1. Roll call, scribes for minutes/action items (5 mins)

Henrik Frystyk Nielsen - Action items
Ed Mooney - Minutes

PRESENT 38/30
Active Data Exchange  Eric Fedok           alternate
Allaire               Glen Daniels         principal
AT&T                  Mark Jones           principal
Bowstreet             Alex Ceponkus        alternate
Canon                 Jean-Jacques Moreau  principal
Compaq                Yin-Leng Husband     principal
Compaq                Kevin Perkins        alternate
Data Research Assoc   Mark Needleman       principal
DataChannel           Yan Xu               principal
Epicentric            Bjoern Heckel        principal
Fujitsu Software      Kazunori Iwasa       principal
Group 8760            Dick Brooks          ebXML contact
Hewlett Packard       David Ezell          principal
Hewlett Packard       Stuart Williams      alternate
IBM                   David Fallside       chair
IBM                   John Ibbotson        principal
Intel                 Randy Hall           principal
IONA Technologies     Oisin Hurley         principal
Jamcracker            David Orchard        principal
Lotus Development     Noah Mendelsohn      principal
Microsoft Corporation Henrik Nielsen       principal
Mitre                 Marwan Sabbouh       principal
Mitre                 Paul Denning         alternate
Netscape              Vidur Apparao        principal
Oracle                David Clay           principal
Oracle                Jim Trezzo           alternate
Progress Software     Andrew Eisenberg     alternate
Rogue Wave            Patrick Thompson     alternate
SAP AG                Volker Wiechers      principal
SAP AG                Gerd Hoelzing        alternate
Software AG           Michael Champion     principal
Sun Microsystems      Ed Mooney            principal
Sun Microsystems      Mark Baker           alternate
Tibco                 Frank DeRose         principal
Unisys                Nick Smilonich       alternate
W3C                   Hugo Haas            alt team contact
Xerox                 Tom Breuel           alternate
XMLSolutions          Kevin Mitchell       principal

AUTOMATICALLY EXCUSED
Active Data Exchange  Richard Martin       principal
Allaire               Simeon Simeonov      alternate
Bowstreet             James Tauber         principal
Canon                 Herve Ruellan        alternate
Epicentric            Dean Moses           alternate
Fujitsu Software Corp Jim Hughes           alternate
IBM                   Fransisco Cubera     alternate
IONA Technologies     Eric Newcomer        alternate
Microsoft Corporation Paul Cotton          alternate
Netscape              Ray Whitmer          alternate
Progress Software     David Cleary         principal
Rogue Wave            Murali Janakiraman   principal
Software AG           Dietmar Gaertner     alternate
Unisys                Lynne Thompson       principal
W3C                   Yves Lafon           team contact
Xerox                 Bill Anderson        principal
XMLSolutions          John Evdemon         alternate

REGRETS 14/12
Akamai Technologies   Mark Nottingham      principal
Calico Commerce       Rekha Nagarajan      principal
DaimlerChrysler       Mario Jeckle         principal
DaimlerChrysler       Andreas Riegg        alternate
DevelopMentor         Martin Gudgin        principal
Engenia Software      Jeffrey Kay          principal
Informix Software     Charles Campbell     principal
Library of Congress   Ray Denenberg        principal
NCR                   Vilhelm Rosenqvist   principal
OMG                   Henry Lowe           principal
Philips Research      Yasser alSafadi      principal
Philips Research      Amr Yassin           alternate
Vignette              Conleth O'Connell    principal
WebMethods            Randy Waldrop        principal

ABSENT WITHOUT EXPLANATION 11/8
Commerce One          David Burdett        principal
Commerce One          Murray Maloney       alternate
DevelopMentor         Don Box              alternate
Engenia Software      Michael Freeman      alternate
Ericsson Research     Nilo Mitra           principal
Library of Congress   Rich Greenfield      alternate
NCR                   Lew Shannon          alternate
Vitria Technology Inc Waqar Sadiq          principal
Vitria Technology Inc Richard Koo          alternate
XMLGlobal Technologies David Webber        principal
XMLGlobal Technologies Matthew MacKenzie   alternate

2. Agenda review, call for AOB (5 mins)

AOB: F2F agenda (Henrik).

3. Approval of minutes from last week [1], and approval of these minutes to become public. Review action items (5 mins)

Approval of minutes postponed to next meeting, when members will have had more time to review them.

4. Requirements Document (25 mins)

Status report from editorial team

Editors to produce annotations document with links to xp-reqs-02. Main categories of discussion (Henrik):

In scope requirements
Out of scope requirements
Glossary

Glen Daniels suggests and it is the consensus that use cases constitute fourth category for discussion.

Editors need more discussion if they are to make changes (Henrik). Several suggestions proposed recently (Oisin Hurley).

Requirements document and f2f

General

Goal of f2f should be to finish discussion of requirements so we can publish first wd document. Need to look at what we can do between now and f2f so we have a stable basis for that discussion (David F).

Need stable documents by next meeting. Will be on required reading list for F2F (David F). Need to agree on subjects for active discussion (Noah Mendelsohn). Get in your suggestions for F2F agenda. David F to publish agenda next week.

Means of identifying changes from previous revision (Dave Clay)?
Tools are available for diffing (Hugo Haas)

Hugo to check into diff tools.

General agreement that annotations document will represent differences between xp-reqs-02 and a future xp-reqs-03.

Out of scope

Section leads need to stimulate discussion on the list (David F). Can they commit to furthering of out of scope requirements? Need 24 hours to incorporate out-of-scope discussion into annotation document (Henrik).

What does it mean to discuss out of scope items (David F)? How will out-0f-scope issues be addressed in the future (Frank DeRose)?

Glossary

Can Martin Gudgin have next rev of glossary for us to look at by next week's meeting (Dec. 6) (David F)? Henrik to ask.

Use cases

Should not be on critical path to getting out requirements draft (Henrik)
Use what we have now and expand on them later (Dave Clay)
Hopes they're on the agenda for F2F (Mark Jones)
Ability to test XP against use cases (if only informally) as part of requirements (John Ibbotson)
Already have requirement that use cases be testable (David F)

Hugo Haas to check whether we can add use cases later if draft goes out without them.

Review and publication schedule

Henrik to publish annotations document COB (PST) Thursday Nov. 30.

Out-of-scope section leads to stimulate public discussion. Get roll-up to Henrik by COB (PST) Tue. Dec. 5.

Henrik to ask Martin Gudgin to produce another version of Glossary for discussion at next week's meeting (Dec. 6).

Final discussion prior to F2F at regular telcon on Wed. Dec. 6.

6. XP Requirements (45 mins)

The following DR's did not make the 2/3 "Y" criteria: 608 609 612 702 203 303 305 309. We will start work to achieve agreement on these DRs. Consult xml-dist-app discussion on these requirements, plus the L and D ballot emails [2].

DR203

DR203: The XML Protocol will guarantee that RPC messages that encode parameters and results using the default encoding for the base set of data types will be valid for any conformant binding of the RPC conventions. "Valid" in this context means that the semantics of the call should remain identical, irrespective of the programming language or object system used by the caller or receiver.

Discussion

Happy to drop 203 because it duplicates requirements elsewhere (Vidur Apparao).

Favors dropping it because we ought not be in the business of specifying language bindings (Noah).

Does dropping it prclude a "binding" to an error format (Dick Brooks)?

DR202 enables error binding (Vidur).

Question from Dave Clay kicks off discussion about portable clients. Perhaps a topic for some other part of this activity (Noah).

Consensus

Drop DR203.

DR608

DR608:The XP specification should not preclude the use of XP messaging over popular security mechanisms.

Discussion

Suggested new wording sent out earlier today (Oisin).

In many ways similar to first requirement in 600 section (Henrik).

Charter requires XP to be incrementally extensible to support security (David F).

Come up with use cases for particular security protocols (John Ibbotson)?

ebXML use cases sent out recently address security (Dick Brooks).

Likes new wording, understood it to mean the same ast the old (Dave Clay).

Pick a few specific security protocols and say it's our intent not to preclude them (Tom Breuel)?

SSL and S/MIME not meant be an exhaustive list (David F).

Action

Tom Breuel and Oisin Hurley to propose new wording.

Perhaps we need also to define what we mean when we say "do not preclude" (Oisin).

7. Any Other Business (5 mins)

F2F registration closes end of day Wed. 12/6.

Attendee list posted 12/7 (David F.).

Paul Cotton posted reminder about block bookings. Though date has now passed, David F. was still able to get a room.

Agenda will be posted after next week's telcon.

Local transportation between hotel and MS (Mark Jones)? Henrik to check with Paul Cotton.

List of new action items

David Fallside: Send last week's minutes to the list and update attendance list.
Hugo Haas: Figure out what the HTML diff tools can do.
Henrik Frystyk Nielsen: Send out annotation document by Thursday 30 November EOB
Hugo Haas: Check whether use cases are required in a first published WD or whether we can add them later.
David Fallside: Send out f2f agenda for meeting Dec 13-14 by next phone conference
Henrik Frystyk Nielsen: Talk to Martin Gudgin to accept an action item to generate a new revision of the glossary in time for next meeting.
Tom Breuel: Look at new wording of 608 and send comments to list.
Henrik Frystyk Nielsen: Ask Paul about transport at f2f meeting.